445 Problems
Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 445/455/458
Forum Description: 445/455/458 Hints, Tips and News
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5248
Printed Date: 27 March 2026 at 03:51
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 445 Problems
Posted By: alain
Subject: 445 Problems
Date Posted: 17 June 2011 at 16:47
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Hi 445 owners
My 445 -- hull number 026 -- is great to sail but has a nasty problem -- the toilets. After 3 to 4 uses the pump dos not do its job anymore, air bubbles appear and you have a hard time to get rid of the sh.. Both toilets have the same problem. We have checked the ventilation -- it seems to work when pumping wather -- the connection tubes to the tanks seem to be OK -- and we really dont have a clue what the problem is. After flushing 3 to 4 uses and again... As long just water is pumped through everything seems OK. I have never been on a boat with such a stupid toilet installation. Do's anyone made similar experience? Also the water tubes where not properly mounted, they came off the fittings near the valves by themselves but this could get fixed by TRIO -- the local hanse dealer/service. Look forward to feedback / ideas -- Alain ------------- alain H445 #26 |
Replies:
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 17 June 2011 at 20:21
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Hi, The problem is the black water tank. after some years it becomes clogged with the solids and only liquids find their way out. After a while everything becomes completely blocked. The solution is obvious but messy  .1) clean the breather opening and remove the filter and throw it away. 2) from the deck fitting fill up the tank with hot water and special detergent and let it stay for some hours - with the tank sea cock closed. Empty it according to local rules. Repeat until water comes out clean. 3) flush the toilet with hot water several times to clean the toilet-to-tank hose. To avoid this sort of problems the above procedure to be repeated every 2-3 months depending on use. ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: alain
Date Posted: 17 June 2011 at 20:37
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Hi,
Many thanks -- but the boat is new -- was delivered just in early may this year and the problem showed up very quickly. But anyway, your input is a way to follow -- to check out! Thanks again! The following drawing shows the tank -- eventually the distance between the inlet tube and the top oft the tank ist too short...  ------------- alain H445 #26 |
Posted By: hawkeye
Date Posted: 19 June 2011 at 06:43
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This is an issue for your dealer to sort on a new boat. Unlikely as two toilets are involved, but check to see that the pump valve casing is properly bedded on the gasket at the top and also at bottom of the pump cylinder. On an earlier boat,I had an issue where a small crack developed beside one of the the valve casing screw holes (due to over tightening) resulting in air in the system. It would work so long as water was in the whole system, but after a while air would bleed back and it would stop. Also worth checking the joint by the joker valve for the same problem. They must have an air leak somewhere. The toilet units are very simple and there is little else to go wrong. Always worth carrying an overhaul kit just in case though! Maybe the inlet pipe to the holding tank is too long and gets clogged at the top. This would not be a problem with just water. However the back pressure would usually be too great to pump against if it was blocked. Good luck, John
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Posted By: alain
Date Posted: 19 June 2011 at 17:44
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Many thanks John -- I will check on your points! The dealer tried to find the reason for the problem -- but without success sofar. ------------- alain H445 #26 |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 19 June 2011 at 20:48
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hi, Its funny to talk about these things. One point to remember is that the heads pump transforms everything to a paste, so it is not very possible that the small distance between tank input pipe and tank top to be a problem. I suspect that the ventilation is blocked. Almost everybody had this problem and removed the vent opening filter - there is nothing to filter anyway, just air. This filter gets easily blocked the first time you overfill the tank. If the vent opening is blocked then there is pressure buildup in the tank and the sh*t and black water can return to the head. If the heads never worked properly then of course there might be a construction fault probably in the tanks. Good luck. PS: Never let the contents of the tanks to stay longer than 2-3 days. We have a procedure to clean the tanks weekly with hot water and special detergent, but this is not easy everywhere. ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: 371-#235
Date Posted: 20 June 2011 at 16:12
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It could also be the cheap Jabsco toilets that came with the boat.
Had the same problems - even repalced the pump assembly with the new locking one - problem came back after a short while. I have just ordered an expensive higher quality toilet from Groco that I hope will solve the problem.
The lack of a vented loop in the Hanse installation does bother me though.
Bob ------------- Bob 371-#235 "Blondie" |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 20 June 2011 at 16:31
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Hi,
I had Jabsco manual toilets in my previous boat for more than ten years without any problem and I do not believe there is the root of the problem there. Also there is no need for a vented loop since the vented black water tank which is inline with the toilet discharge circuit acts as a vented loop. Anyway with the tank discharge always closed (as it should be) there is no danger of sea water syphoning in the toilet. ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: hawkeye
Date Posted: 20 June 2011 at 21:19
| Agree with Panos. The Jabsco toilets are perfectly functional and reliable unless actually damaged. I disagree that the air vent being blocked is necessarily the cause. If that was the case neither waste nor water would pump as both are incompressible. However Alain says they work fine with just water. Very strange.John |
Posted By: alain
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 14:33
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Many thanks for your help. I took off the filters and will try without. It looks promising as they where dirty. I will inform about the result -- many thanks again. ------------- alain H445 #26 |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 19:19
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@ alain, If possible (from environmental point of view) wash the tanks with hot water and special detergent (for black water tanks) before trial. If you let the hot water solution overnight you get the best results. ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: Idelfix
Date Posted: 28 June 2011 at 21:59
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Hi Alain
Is there a filter on the toilet ?? Is the problem to get in water or geting out the sh*t to the wastetank ------------- "Keep sailing in free wind" http://suhrfa.blogspot.se |
Posted By: alain
Date Posted: 29 June 2011 at 08:42
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Hi,
We took away the air filters but the problem remains. When we pump away sh.. into the black water tank a counter pressure against the pump builds up until the pump is not effective any more, we then have to wait -- then air bubbles come through the toilet, after that the pump can be used again to pump the remaining away. The air ventilation of the tanks are free -- after flushing the tanks we filled them with water until the water came trough the ventilation holes. To me i9t now looks like the diameter of the tubes between toilet and tank has a faulty reduction somewhere or the pumps are not OK... ------------- alain H445 #26 |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 29 June 2011 at 15:59
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Hi, Is it possible that you have a wrong sh*t to water mixture in to toilet before you start pumping them out? Did you try flushing the toilet with a lot lot of water? ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: Idelfix
Date Posted: 29 June 2011 at 21:35
i think you have to chek this two rubber thing. ------------- "Keep sailing in free wind" http://suhrfa.blogspot.se |
Posted By: alain
Date Posted: 01 July 2011 at 11:46
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Hi Panos
Many thanks for your input -- we tried out all kind of mixtures... we tried with a lot of water, little water, no water... what ever we do --- after pumping a few strokes the pump loses it's efficiency -- then air bubbles come up to gather with what you just pumped away --- then you pump again... It really is sh..!! ------------- alain H445 #26 |
Posted By: Oddmund
Date Posted: 01 July 2011 at 13:46
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If I read your problem description correctly then pressure builds up in the tank. If this is correct the the airvent is blocked by S* or paper.
This has happended twice to me. Try a water hose from the outside flushing freshwater INOTO the tank. If this is open the the two black gaskets indicated by the red square in the previous posts must be checked or replaced. ------------- S/Y Havsula. 370#569 |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 01 July 2011 at 18:12
If the pump loses efficiency and progressively becomes easier to pump (no counterpressure) then the pump rubber parts should be faulty and replaced as proposed by Idefix. If the pump builds a lot of counterpressure and pumping becomes more difficult as you pump then for sure the pipe from the toilet to the waste water tank is somehow blocked or there is a buildup of waste exactly on top of the input pipe into the tank. Before you proceed to a costly disassembly try to pump warm water with chemicals (like "plumber in a box" or "TUB-O-FLO") into the toilet and enough water to completely fill the tank until the water exits from the overflow and let it work for 5-10 minutes and afterwards to flush it with a lot lot lot of water. The rubber parts of the pump might be destroyed in the process but I think it is worth to try. Another idea is to dissasemble the pipe connecting the toilet to the waste water tank (the toilet end) and try to clean with a thinner pipe inserted while water is pumped in the thin pipe. This is a VERY messy idea but will work! ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
alain wrote:Posted By: Idelfix
Date Posted: 01 July 2011 at 22:08
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if the water inlet is closed or half open i get this problem.
------------- "Keep sailing in free wind" http://suhrfa.blogspot.se |
Posted By: gizmo
Date Posted: 10 August 2011 at 13:32
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We have this problem on 1 of our heads, it is caused by the locking switch on the pump head not being across correctly, we have to hold it to the right with the other hand to let the pump work otherwise the pump locks its self. This may not be to clear! try holding the switch to the pump out position (right hand side) with your other hand. Ken ------------- Ken 430e # 161 UK |
Posted By: 371-#235
Date Posted: 30 August 2011 at 02:01
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Installed a Groco toilet in June and have used it extensively this summer without a single problem unlike the replaced Jabsco unit. Much better toilet - strong flushing and absolutely trouble free.
Bob ------------- Bob 371-#235 "Blondie" |
Posted By: Diane
Date Posted: 18 September 2011 at 20:35
| We have not had a problem with the heads thus far but we have had a major problem with the water connectors. We took possession in the beginning of August and sailed from Southampton to Gibralter. As stated, no problems with the head but we have had different connections throughout the boat come loose (both hot and cold) and spill into the bilge. One time we were half way across the Bay of Biscay and there went our fresh water! My husband has tightened all of the jubille clips and, in some cases, added a second one, but the problem continues. Has anybody else had this issue? We live in Canada but keep the boat in Spain. Would not like to come back to a full bilge...... |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 19 September 2011 at 22:58
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Hi, The tubes (out of clear plastic with metal reinforcement) used by Hanse for the pressurized hot and cold water are not good quality and develop holes at random places.Most probably because the metal reinforcement is rusting. We started to replace them last winter and gradually we will change all of them. ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: ontario1
Date Posted: 20 September 2011 at 01:05
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Just got my 445 about 1 week ago
Couple of thing related to plumbing.
The water from the fresh water pump was initially leaking, which our dealer took care to fix rapidly.
After we took possession of the boat we notice in both washrooms sink were leaking from the join between the counter top and glass bowl (the sink).
Not sure if it is common but it happened on both washroom for us.
Did anyone had this problem?
On a similar topic:
Anyone knows where are the 2 black water tanks are, how to access them, and how to know when they are getting full and ready for a pumpout.
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Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 20 September 2011 at 05:05
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Hi, The black water tanks are on the sides of the boat behind the toilet furniture. They are under their emptying hole which is on the deck. There is no provision to read the black water level. What we do is to count the uses: 2 liters for lite use and 4 liters for heavy use. So after about 8-9 uses the tank should be considered full. If by mistake you overfill it, there is a spray of blackwater to the neighboring boat . If this happens do not forget to thoroughly clean the vent tube and hole by overfilling the tank with hot water and special detergent!! (after emptying the tank of course) else the vent tube blocks and there is a pressure buildup in the tank when you use the head which can lead to a reversal of flow  . ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: Peter-Blake
Date Posted: 20 September 2011 at 07:24
BTW .... and, what do you do with your neighbour after this "mistake"? ------------- Blake 370 
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Posted By: Diane
Date Posted: 20 September 2011 at 14:36
| You can actually access the black water tanks. Just use that same rubber thing (round) that you use to pull up the bilge doors. The one in the aft head is located just to the right of the sink - just place the rubber thing on and slide/pull the cover off. For the aft, just place the rubber thing on the cover which is actually located above the port side seating, to the right of the hull long window - located in the MAIN salon. Hope this make some sort of sense.... You can actually use a torch and see how full the tanks are. |
Posted By: alain
Date Posted: 13 November 2011 at 18:27
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Hi all friends, Many thanks for all you information and inputs! I became a specialist in toilet pumping -- to pump -- then some air bubbles, sometimes some waste comes back -- then pump again and pump more ... sometimes with fast small strokes, sometimes with slower long stokes... I got a feeling for the best method according to the toilets behavior...! Cruising around in the south of Turkey and in the Agean sea for 6 Month I somehow started to accept the situation, because in all other aspects I experienced the 445 as great boat! Besides the toilet there is only one thing I will change -- I want to change the standard anchor to something with more holding power (in the middle of the night...). Chain I have already 100m instead of 60m. Now -- as we often have guests and they miss the special toilet skill's -- I will try a new approach to the toilet mystery. The situation is - one of the tanks has been taken out and inspected by the Turkish Hanse dealer -- the tank is OK - the waste tubes have been inspected by the Hanse dealer -- OK - the air ventilation has been inspected -- OK - the pump membranes have been inspected -- OK If the difference in altitude which the pump has to overcome is too much for the pump, other 445's would have the same problem. Eventually we have 2 toilets out of a production batch with a pump problem... I will try to find out.... any other idea? But again -- after this 6 month experience of sailing the 445 I am totally enthusiastic about this boat! Alain ------------- alain H445 #26 |
Posted By: hanafe
Date Posted: 30 July 2012 at 13:52
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We have exactly the same problem you have and "filled" our bilge with fresh water two times already because of loose pipe connection. In our case it happenend on the cold water pipes. I need to find all connections now, step by step, to tighten and secure them. We took posession in Feb 12, and still have the same problem as you describe. |
Posted By: ontario1
Date Posted: 30 July 2012 at 15:04
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Hi hanafe Regarding the leaking from the freshwater pump. Here is how I solve my problem. In my case it was related to the air pressure building in the pipes due to the water heater working while the engine ran for more than 30 minutes. (Water heater heats up water also with only engine running via the coolant going through) The pipe started leaking one after another. After secured one that leaked with 2 rings. another one start leaking. Now what I do is that if I do not need the water I turn off the fresh water pump but leave the kitchen sink hot water tap open, this way the pressure does not build-up. The manual of the water heater also talks about making sure to bleed the pipes before the water heater start running (from electricity or from the engine cooling system) Hope this help |
Posted By: hanafe
Date Posted: 30 July 2012 at 23:27
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Thanks for your information. My problem is much simpler. It is not leaking. The connections just get loose. For security we also switch off the water pump now while sailing or beeing under deck. See picture.  |
Posted By: alain
Date Posted: 31 July 2012 at 10:23
I had the same problem (see pictures) -- the Turkish Hanse dealer then exchanged all blue tubes by other ones with less diameter -- since then we had no leakage any more. Regarding our toilet problem: the Turkish dealer (TRIO DENIZ) also exchanged both toilets -- this practically eliminated the problem -- no back pressure any more, much easier to operate, sometimes still some air coming back but only little amount. It seems, that the toilets pumped too much air into the tube towards the tank, and that this air was causing the trouble. Best regards -- Alain ------------- alain H445 #26 |
Posted By: Stolstol
Date Posted: 25 August 2012 at 22:18
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Hello Alain To what type of toilet did you change. Electrical och just another brand? Regards Stig ------------- Stig 445 #007 |
Posted By: claudio1
Date Posted: 17 October 2012 at 20:04
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Hi Guys I bought my 445 end of last year. Had the same small problems some of you had with water leaks/etc but they were fixed and some other minor issues also had been dealt by Inspiration Marine. One problem I am facing now is that the aft toilet brings sometimes smell to the mail saloon, coming from the section where the electric panel is. I checked all the pipes and no of them have any leak. If you discharge it then it smells even more for a while. We clean the tank with detergent/etc but smell always comes back, specially after emptying it. My only thinking is that may be some air leak comes form the air vent connection to the hull? Any ideas or some had same problem before? Many Thanks |
Posted By: Blejie
Date Posted: 17 October 2012 at 22:19
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We had the same problems on our 470. After many searches and all what has been said above as possible solution we found out that we had two tea bags in the elbow of the hull shutter fully stuck. We do not rent out the boat nor have we put teabags in the Jabsco. So our only conclusion is that this is a factory caused problem. NO more problems since. Jos. ------------- Owner of the Lunatic - H470 #346 |
Posted By: Viking
Date Posted: 17 October 2012 at 22:45
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Hi Claudio, Same problem with my 445. Exactly as you describe it. I have basicaly given up. Now i will start looking for the tea bags :-) |
Posted By: hanafe
Date Posted: 17 October 2012 at 23:36
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Hi, we have the same problem but from the master toilet. I have also no idea where the smell comes from and basically gave up as well. Any hint is appreciated HanaFe
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Posted By: bovine
Date Posted: 18 October 2012 at 23:47
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Hi all just stop using sea water to flush, use the shower head and pump out only. its the bugs in sea water that die and decompose that causes the smell cheers David P |
Posted By: hanafe
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 00:53
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I am not talking about the normal smell from seawater flushing. I am talking about a smell from the holing tanks or the the ventilation system of the holding tanks. I had several boats before and could always control the seawater smell either buy using fresh water as much as possible or on one boat, I even installed a secpond valve directly at the toilet bowl which eliminated all smell. |
Posted By: Viking
Date Posted: 20 October 2012 at 12:28
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Hi, I agree with Hanafe. The smell is somewhat wierd, sometimes I get the impression it has nothing to do with the toilet/tanks system. I am one of those who remove the speedmeter everytime i dont use the boat for a week or two. Cleaning and drying properly this compartiment seems to be helping....fingers crossed. |