411 and broken mast
Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 411
Forum Description: 411 Hints and Tips
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6221
Printed Date: 27 March 2026 at 03:18
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Topic: 411 and broken mast
Posted By: Jøvani
Subject: 411 and broken mast
Date Posted: 22 January 2012 at 17:22
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Hi Bernd, I saw your mail regarding broken mast under broken rudder. I start a new subject. Can you please tell a little more how it happened and what you have improved to prevent it happen again. I have a 411 and of course a mast coming down is a disaster. I have a Spar Craft rig. Any advices will be appreciated. I did address Hanse on this topic but no response. Jøvani ------------- Jøvani Hanse 411 #189 Tønsberg Norway |
Replies:
Posted By: Bernd vh
Date Posted: 22 January 2012 at 21:38
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hi Jovani, our first breakdown happened in spring 2004, crashing at at the first spreaders access holes, upwind sailing in 5 bft, luckily near the coast and our home port. Neither the yard nor the insurance could tell us any reaseon why this caused, bur anything was paid and repaird in a shot time. Thin then I took advice of professional riggers and read everything about masts and rigging, but the next break came during Hansecup round Rügen in autumn 2007. It happened in the same way as the first time, therig an sails were in perfect shape and again nobody had any idea why this could happen.The boat stayed in the yard over winter, for the season 2008 we got a complete new rig, now from Selden ( my wish) custom made. Since then we are happy with the new Mast, which seems to be stronger and of better quality. I think we are the first hanse with Selden rig. Bernd ------------- Hanse 411 nr 69 |
Posted By: Jøvani
Date Posted: 22 January 2012 at 22:28
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Hi, Thanks a
lot for your response. I did hear of another 411 here in Norway that experienced
the same as you, never been in contact with him. But understand he got a Selden
rig as well. It is a scaring situation and strange that Hanse does not revert on
my mail. I will for sure carefully inspect the area at the first spreaders before the
2012 season. Jøvani ------------- Jøvani Hanse 411 #189 Tønsberg Norway |
Posted By: Bernd vh
Date Posted: 22 January 2012 at 23:09
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so far i can see the last 411 boats have a tapered mast ( as my selden mast), maybe an improvment to reduce the vertical compression. Did not hear that there was a significant number of of accidents like we had with the 411 Bernd ------------- Hanse 411 nr 69 |
Posted By: Jøvani
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 07:20
May be good news for me  , how do I find out if I
have a tapered mast? I will be on travel for a few days, but will try to
inspect at the end of the week.Jøvani------------- Jøvani Hanse 411 #189 Tønsberg Norway |
Posted By: Bernd vh
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 21:06
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when the diameter of the mast profile gets slightly smaller to the top, beginning at the forestay fix point, then you have a tapered mast. (sorry, I am am fighting with the language) Bernd ------------- Hanse 411 nr 69 |
Posted By: Jøvani
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 21:47
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No problem with your language. Probably the same for all us communicating in a language not being our mother tongue language. I think I understand, the upper part get gradually slimmer from the forestay and up. May be resulting in more flexibility? In my home harbor there is another 411, an much earlier production number I think. I will try to compare at the end of the week. regards Jøvani ------------- Jøvani Hanse 411 #189 Tønsberg Norway |
Posted By: ernol
Date Posted: 25 January 2012 at 10:44
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Hi, The first few Hanse 411 produced have a rig from Z-spar like the Hanse 401. From 2002/2003 they change to Sparcraft and I think all the sparcraft masts on the 411 are tapered at the end. In Norway at least 3 411 have had a sparcraft mast that broke. It is therefor that some of 411 owners have made improvement with a innerforstay and backstay. There is at least one post from Samba with pictures of this solution. If I remember right has Samba the backstay from under the upperspreaders but most of the boats here in Norway they are running from a point 50 cm above the upperspreader. I don`t know if this is of any importance Erno
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Posted By: Bandy
Date Posted: 25 January 2012 at 11:48
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Bandy is a 411 from 2003 and has a Sparcraft rig. We have been sailing from the Netherlands to several countries including Norway (2010) and to Sweden in 2011. We own her from new. We have had no issues with the rig so far. I did however install an extra forestay (removable from dyneema) which we can use for a smaller jib (14m2) on longer trips in bad weather. We sheet that jib on the selftacking rail. Normally we use a 100% as a standard.  Benno, Hanse 411-083, 2003 Holland
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Posted By: Bernd vh
Date Posted: 26 January 2012 at 19:51
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Hi Benno, nice picture ! As to be seen your mast is not tapered at the top, as mine was when delivered in july 2003. i think, the mast was changed with the last edition of the 411 range (2004?), which got some changes in the deck layout. I am sure that Jovanis boat belongs to the last edition regards bernd ------------- Hanse 411 nr 69 |
Posted By: Jøvani
Date Posted: 28 January 2012 at 12:37
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Today I was able to get photos of the mast. May be it is not so simple to see from the pictures, but looking at the mast it seems that the upper part from the forestay and up its shape gets slimmer. However, I also looked at an older 411 and it seems like that profile is tapered too. The picture without radar is Jøvani, 2005 model. The one with radar I believe is 2003 model. Please look at the mast to the right in the pictures! Beno, a very nice picture! I can see your deck layout is a little different. I only have the aft small hatches, one above pantry and the other at the toilet. Do you have any details of the inner forestay you mounted? I will consider doing the same as I understand it will strengthen the mast. But as I normally have our inflatable dingy on deck it must be simple to mount and demount. regards Jøvani  
------------- Jøvani Hanse 411 #189 Tønsberg Norway |
Posted By: barbarigo
Date Posted: 16 February 2012 at 21:55
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Nice pitture. I'm interesting in tour extra forestay. Where you fix tris on deck? And on the mast? Tank you, ------------- Aries, Hanse 411 Hullnr. 149 |
Posted By: Jøvani
Date Posted: 17 February 2012 at 12:26
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Hi Barbarigo, I have the
same interest as you. Also consider an inner forestay. But would appreciate to
see a picture and some description. I know there exits
411 which has mounted a forestay that can moved when not needed. I hope someone
can help us out ! Regards Jøvani ------------- Jøvani Hanse 411 #189 Tønsberg Norway |
Posted By: samba
Date Posted: 18 February 2012 at 11:02
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Hello, I have put a baby stay and runners on our 411. I always use it when sailing at sea. Right now i have removed the babystay since i am mostly sailing in the inner waters of holland. You do have to go up the mast to remove it. I defenitely would advise the baby stay when sailing a lot at sea to stop the pumping. You can see some pictures at http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1854 Cheers, Michiel ------------- Samba - Hanse 411 - Bruinisse |
Posted By: Jøvani
Date Posted: 23 February 2012 at 14:12
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Thanks Michiel,
Sorry for late response, but is on vacation and have only limited internet access. Looks very nice what you have done. But have a question, did you make any reinforcement under the deck?
regards
Jøvani ------------- Jøvani Hanse 411 #189 Tønsberg Norway |
Posted By: Jøvani
Date Posted: 24 February 2012 at 02:04
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Michiel,
I got a better look at your pictures this morning. Looks to be simple to make the deck connection. Thanks again.
Jøvani
------------- Jøvani Hanse 411 #189 Tønsberg Norway |
Posted By: samba
Date Posted: 25 February 2012 at 09:45
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Hello
Jøvani, The connection was indeed very simple. I am not quite sure of all 411's have the same reinforcement. Let me know if you want to know more. What are your plans? Cheers, Michiel ------------- Samba - Hanse 411 - Bruinisse |
Posted By: Jøvani
Date Posted: 26 February 2012 at 07:33
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Hi Michiel, My reason for looking into this topic is due to what I have been reading related to the Sparcraft rig and a few masts coming down when it not should Your solution looks good, I only need to make it detachable at the deck and find a parking place when not in use. Any ideas will be appreciated. Cheers!
Jøvani ------------- Jøvani Hanse 411 #189 Tønsberg Norway |
. My sailing is mostly in not too rough conditions, but a crossing from the Oslofjord to Skangen in Damnark I do from time to time. This is an open sea crossing of 90 - 100 miles. I the present rig setting I have never experienced any pumping and the rig seems stable. However, as many other boat owners I like to implement improvements and reading about this topic I consider it to be a kind of insurance to avoid trouble out at sea. During most sailing I would like to use the Posted By: samba
Date Posted: 26 February 2012 at 08:59
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Hi there, When looking for a new boat I spoke to two 411 owners. When asking what to modify, the first one recommended adding a baby stay because of the pumping of the mast at sea. The second one gave me a lot of good advise because he crossed the atlantic a year before I did. He did loose his mast in the english channel and had to replace it !! My experience with the baby stay that it is very annoying when using either genua or the turning jib. It is always in the way. Sailing longe distance this not really a problem. Sailing in the inner waters it is annoying. I used to detach the baby stay from the deck and this can be easily done. I then attach it to the base of the stays next to the mast. This does work but the baby stay hits the schrouts all the time making lot's of noice when there is a bit more wind. We are now sailing in a compeitition in inner waters so I don't need it any more. A friend of mine said that we can remove the stay from the mast. Which we have done. It is now completely removed. To put it back you have to go up the mast and can be done easily. When I will sail at sea again, I will put the baby stay back. This is a half a hour job. I am satisfied with the baby stay and will keep using it at sea. I bought it because we were going to cross the atlantic and we used it all the time. The question is would I buy it now when only sailing at sea a few days a year. I don't know. It depends on the budget you have and if you want the reassurance. I do like the reassurance myself. Reading the forum Replacing the seacocks seams more urgent to me. My boat is from 2004 and i haven't replaced all the seacocks yet. I am not quit sure if this helps you. ------------- Samba - Hanse 411 - Bruinisse |
Posted By: Jøvani
Date Posted: 03 March 2012 at 01:04
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Hi Samba,
Sorry for late response, but I am still on travel. Any advices helps, other boat owners experiences are always of great interest. I understand the issue with the detached baby stay and the noise it creates. I saw Bandy used a Dyneemaa baby stay, it might be simpler to park？There is no rush in completing the baby stay project, for the time being just pre study
Anyway, will be back home March 10th just in time to start preparation for a new season. First priority will be to have a closer look at the rudder shaft and the seacocks. Hopefully it will be OK. My 411 is from 2005 and in our area the boats are onshore from October to April. My experience so far with galvanic erosion is good. The offer anodes on the saildrive and the propeller last 2 years even if I keep shore power 220V connected through out the season. I have seen from some of the writing at myHanse there is an offer anode at the inside the saildrive on some Yanmar installations. If there is, can some one indicate where it is located? Or may be it is only on some models？ I saw your problem with rudder vibrations. Have not experienced any vibrations, but probably not made as many miles as you have.
regards
------------- Jøvani Hanse 411 #189 Tønsberg Norway |
Posted By: Jøvani
Date Posted: 13 March 2012 at 20:30
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Hi Samba Just to
follow up your worries on the sea cocks I must admit I am in the same
situation. I did inspect all sea inlet and outlet today and all are of the NS58
type. You probably got the same? Have you found a product you will use? Has also
looked closer at the rudder shaft and there are some indication of galvanic corrosion.
I believe it will be sufficient to clean it down to the metal and use the same
primer I use on the sail drive and finally the anti fouling for aluminum in the
area close to the shaft. My main anti fouling
is VC17 which is copper based, so will keep that on distance from the shaft. ------------- Jøvani Hanse 411 #189 Tønsberg Norway |
Posted By: Bandy
Date Posted: 21 March 2012 at 11:12
 this is inside the anchor locker. the profile is attached to the deck and the wall to the bedroom  In the bedroom a polished contra plate is attached to the profile  The tensioner, a wichard ratchet is hooked on deck.  when not in use i can "store" the stay alongside the mast. on the spreader an outhaul is installed to prevent the stay to tick against the mast all the time  just above the second spreader they made a sheavebox into the mast. it includes the halyard.  The stay is made of Kevlar, the jib is app. 13m2 and runs on the selftacking rail (which i do not use for my standard jib as this is a 107%). In normal weekend sailing the stay is attached alongside the mast, but with longer trips over sea it is installed including the jib so i can set it up quickly, I can install it from the pit. Last year returning from Sweden with some 20 - 25 knots coming from 40 degrees i installed the stormjib going into the night and on autopilot it ran easily 7 knots the whole night through. Bandy |
Posted By: Jøvani
Date Posted: 24 March 2012 at 21:21
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Bandy, Many thanks for your pictures and advises. Just now I have been more focused on the rudder shaft and the inspecting the sea inlet valves. The rudder shaft got some damages as you can see from the pictures. I trust I got it stopped by a two component primer for aluminum and anti fouling for aluminum. I have also found that all inlet valves are of the type NS58. To get the status I demented the on for sea inlet to the WC. I could not find any damage to the valve nor the bend, I just cleaned it remounted. However what I found was the it was used only a single hose clamp on the T splitting at the sea inlet water to the pantry and the WC. I believe this is an original installation. Anyway now dual hose clamps are in place before it is time to again go to the water Problems with pictures again, I will try to upload pictures later. regards Jøvani ------------- Jøvani Hanse 411 #189 Tønsberg Norway |