New Jib
Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 350
Forum Description: 350 Hints and Tips
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6923
Printed Date: 27 March 2026 at 03:41
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Topic: New Jib
Posted By: Swanji
Subject: New Jib
Date Posted: 09 September 2012 at 16:01
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Hi all We have decided to replace our current jib - North standard issue - next season. Since we are cruisers looking to go fast, we are planning to stick with the self tacking jiib. I have got quotes from North in Cape Town for the Norlam, radian and standard Dacron cloth. The current thinking is to go for either the Norlam or the radian cut Dacron and to have vertical battens fitted. Also the quotes have been for Jibs around the 27m2 mark. We are looking to increase this to the 29.6 m2 spec as per the boats specifications. Anyone have any thoughts on this in terms of size, material, battens, full cut, fathead etc etc? ------------- Onwards and upwards Nidri, Levkada, Ionian, Greece Hanse 350 #7, SY Evolution, standard keel, 3YM20 sail drive, 3 cabins, cherry wood interior, teak decks, feathering prop |
Replies:
Posted By: Markku
Date Posted: 11 September 2012 at 21:00
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In our 371 we have new sails from North. The main is Radian Dacron partially radial cut, full batten and the jib is 105% polyester laminate, full radial cut. I like more the jib as it keeps its shape very well in winds exceeding 16 knots helping to keep boat's stability. The radian main is ok, but experience with the jib makes me think would it be better to have the main also made of laminate. In my case the price difference with the main was about 25%, and surely if you purchased both at the same time it's a lot of money. With the jib I made a compromise with the self-tacking and have tacked the whole season. The sail can still be used as self-tacking sail by furling the sail in, but obviously it suffers a bit as all furled sails do. The 105% jib is large enough to maintain relatively good speed in light winds, so I gave up genoa. I would say buy the best sails you can get if money isn't an issue, but generally it's depending on what's your need from the sails. Markku ------------- S/Y Flow Hanse 371 |
Posted By: Swanji
Date Posted: 12 September 2012 at 21:30
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Hi Markku Thanks for your input. I am interested to hear that you were able to go up to 105% on the jib and still were able to use the self tacker. Does your jib have vertical battens? Is it shaped in any special way for example with a fuller or flatter shape or with a bigger head? Are you in an area where mildew is a problem? One of the problems I have heard with Norlam is that it is not as resistant to mildew as the Dacron although I don't know how true this is. Many thanks ------------- Onwards and upwards Nidri, Levkada, Ionian, Greece Hanse 350 #7, SY Evolution, standard keel, 3YM20 sail drive, 3 cabins, cherry wood interior, teak decks, feathering prop |
Posted By: Markku
Date Posted: 13 September 2012 at 19:30
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You are right, the sail has vertical battens to give a bigger head. It was also dimensioned and cut according to the exact location of the self-tacking bar and other rig dimensions on the boat to ensure a good fit. Sail dimension is 33m2, whereas a standard st-jib is 27m2, when the sail is furled in to self-tacking size it's reduced to 24m2. And when furled in, the head suffers a bit as always, but we can live with that. The jib is so easy to tack over, that there is no need to use self-tacking. In Finland many boats have laminate (also Norlam) sails, but only few suffer mildew problems. In my previous boat I had five years a polyester laminate genoa which was excellent in terms of shape and fast sailing, but no problems with mildew. I have to check if there's a photo of the jib. Markku ------------- S/Y Flow Hanse 371 |
Posted By: Swanji
Date Posted: 14 September 2012 at 11:22
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Hi Markku That is really helpful. Thanks a lot. Please will you send me an image of the jib if you can. I have never seen a jib with vertical battens. ------------- Onwards and upwards Nidri, Levkada, Ionian, Greece Hanse 350 #7, SY Evolution, standard keel, 3YM20 sail drive, 3 cabins, cherry wood interior, teak decks, feathering prop |
Posted By: Perttu
Date Posted: 14 September 2012 at 19:59
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Hello, I am also potentially looking to replace original North Sails ST-jib on my 355. I am having problems trimming the sail especially when tacking with winds more than 14-16 knts true. Top part of the sail just does not shape as it should but becomes very round (due to tight or very tight halyard...) - eg top windward tell tales point straight into the sky - and the entire sail also flutters very easily when penetrating the waves. Last winter I had 3 vertical battens installed - they improved the overall situation slightly but certaily did not fix it. I believe this type of high aspect sail needs quality radial cut laminate (exactly right size too) to maintain shape and avoid excessive heeling. Eg North Sails are recommending replacement with Radial Dacron which is likely quality cloth but not optimal for this sail. I will likely go for good quality cruising laminate with my purchase. To increase the sail area in 355 is not my primary objective but really to have a ST-jib which maximises the upwind performance and comfort with stronger winds as well... |
Posted By: Swanji
Date Posted: 15 September 2012 at 07:24
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Hello Perttu Thanks for sharing. Your and Markku's experience is definitively pointing us to the cruising laminate side. It sounds as if we should be getting vertical battens as well. The real decision will be whether to go for a 105% genoa which when slightly furled can be used on the self tacker. The difference in size is quite a lot when compared to the standard jib. With the 105% genoa, I imagine that you would need to make use of genoa cars on the genoa traveller. Any ideas which ones to go for? I personally like the ones you can adjust from the cockpit but maybe with this size of genoa, adjusting them will be less important? ------------- Onwards and upwards Nidri, Levkada, Ionian, Greece Hanse 350 #7, SY Evolution, standard keel, 3YM20 sail drive, 3 cabins, cherry wood interior, teak decks, feathering prop |
Posted By: Flemming_M
Date Posted: 15 September 2012 at 08:22
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I got a new North selftalking Jib this summer. The sailmaker from North was on board an have taking measurements. North sails calling the sail: Polyester Radian NDR 7.5 from there Maratonserie 200 . There area is increased, and the best is, that the sail is very easy too trim and the saling balance is must better. It have been a very good decision. ------------- Flemming M Hanse 350/DEN233 |
Posted By: Markku
Date Posted: 16 September 2012 at 17:44
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As for the clarification I took few photos of the jib I mentioned. In full size it's 105% (33m2) and when furled it can be sheeted as self tailing (~24m2).
Tested and works quite well. Naturally for 105% jib you need to have sheets in front part of the side deck or on the cabin roof like some Hanse sailors have done.
I can also use inhaulers with the jib when needed to point higher.
Jib 105% upper part  Jib 105% lower part
 Jib st, upper part
 Jib st, lower part
 Jib sheet on the deck
 Markku
------------- S/Y Flow Hanse 371 |
Posted By: Swanji
Date Posted: 16 September 2012 at 21:06
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Hi all It seems that the self tacker' s ease of use comes at a price - poor performance in light winds - poor performance downwind- hence the need for barber haulers and various other variations - difficulty in controlling the leech - hence the need for laminate and vertical battens On the other hand it does perform well in stronger winds going into the wind or in winds up to around 130% So based on the feedback received thus far, it seems that if your sailing ground doesn't require a huge amount of tacking, then it may make sense to go for a conventional genoa with sheets led back to the genoa winches via the genoa tracks. If one opts for a standard genoa, then there may no longer be a requirement for vertical battens either. Is it correct to assume that a 105% genoa is sheeted inside of the shrouds? This seems to be the case judging from the images posted. Is one able to stretch this to say 110%? I seem to recall another thread saying that the sheeting angle on a genoa of 120% can only be optimised by mounting genoa tracks on the coach roof. ------------- Onwards and upwards Nidri, Levkada, Ionian, Greece Hanse 350 #7, SY Evolution, standard keel, 3YM20 sail drive, 3 cabins, cherry wood interior, teak decks, feathering prop |
Posted By: Markku
Date Posted: 17 September 2012 at 10:56
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Your conclusion is correct based on my experience with st-jib. I wasn't satisfied with the st-jib we had, but it was very basic dacron sail which suffered all the points you mentioned.
New 105% jib works totally different in terms of downwind sailing, shape control (rope control for the sheet angle helps a lot) and performance in light wind. Mainly because the sail is larger, it has much larger roach due to vertical battens and it has much better shape due to cut and material.
To my experience you have to sheet that size of sail inside the shrouds to get the sail tight for upwind. For downwind you have to move the jib track car to front to keep the shape optimum (that was the position on the photo of the track). To upwind I pull the car back so much that the sheet doesn't lean on the shrouds.
I doubt 110% jib could be sheeted inside shrouds because the tack angle comes too far back from the shrouds, but better to consult your local sailmaker.
Markku ------------- S/Y Flow Hanse 371 |
Posted By: Swanji
Date Posted: 18 September 2012 at 07:07
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Hi Markku There is an English expression that says " we are on the same page" which basically means that we are in absolute agreement. Thanks for your help on this, I really do appreciate it. ------------- Onwards and upwards Nidri, Levkada, Ionian, Greece Hanse 350 #7, SY Evolution, standard keel, 3YM20 sail drive, 3 cabins, cherry wood interior, teak decks, feathering prop |
Posted By: Swanji
Date Posted: 05 October 2012 at 17:12
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Hi all Following on this discussion, we have asked for quotes from North and Quantum for a self tacking jib that has the following spec - self tacker - jib size is around 30m2 versus 25.6m2 which is the standard size. The boat spec lists a jib size of 29.6m2. north have confirmed that a jib this size is possible with a fuller roach and that there will be no slapping of the mast during tacking. - full roach with battens - UV protection and tell tales - crushing laminate to retain shape North have quoted for Norlam and Quantum have quoted on CDX or ACL both of which not surprisingly they consider to be superior to Norlam, no reasons given. Interestingly the Quantum quote is about 20% cheaper. Any views out there in terms of preference? My main issue is shape retention. Both sailmakers reckon their laminate will hold shape for 5 years. Any help much appreciated.  ------------- Onwards and upwards Nidri, Levkada, Ionian, Greece Hanse 350 #7, SY Evolution, standard keel, 3YM20 sail drive, 3 cabins, cherry wood interior, teak decks, feathering prop |
Posted By: Brufan
Date Posted: 06 October 2012 at 17:23
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Swanji, 20% cheaper means how much ??? ------------- Bruno hanse 355 - 57 S/Y Spicy Ginger White hull, 2 cabins, Volvo D1-30, Selden rig, removable mainsheet track system, Simrad (now B&G)-Jefa autopilot. |
Posted By: Swanji
Date Posted: 06 October 2012 at 19:38
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Hi Bruno North in Cape Town have quoted Euro 2,100 excluding VAT and delivery. Quantum in Cape Town have quoted Euro 1,425 for the CDX and Euro 1,510 for the ACL, both excluding VAT and delivery. The saving is more like 30% having done the numbers!! Apart from price which counts against them, North give a worldwide warranty on their sails. Any issues with the sail could be sorted out by North Croatia. I am not sure how Quantum would handle this. Getting things done in Croatia is not easy, believe me. The other point in North's favor is that they seem to have all the measurements on hand to be able to design a 105% self tacker measuring a shade over 30m2. Quantum require a load of measurements which would be difficult for me to get to them given the location of the boat. ------------- Onwards and upwards Nidri, Levkada, Ionian, Greece Hanse 350 #7, SY Evolution, standard keel, 3YM20 sail drive, 3 cabins, cherry wood interior, teak decks, feathering prop |
Posted By: Swanji
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 08:41
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Hi All Well after researching via the internet the differences between North's Norlam and Quantum's ACL laminate sails, we have decided to go for Quantum's Contender ACL which will suit our requirements better. http://contendersailcloth.com/index.php/en/laminates/triradial/acl-cruising.html" rel="nofollow - http://contendersailcloth.com/index.php/en/laminates/triradial/acl-cruising.html http://nsdnn.northsails.com/italyeng/Products/CRUISING/Offshore/SoftNorLamGrey/tabid/14638/language/en-US/Default.aspx" rel="nofollow - http://nsdnn.northsails.com/italyeng/Products/CRUISING/Offshore/SoftNorLamGrey/tabid/14638/language/en-US/Default.aspx What I found particularly interesting was that Quantum have supplied over 500 sails to Croatia over the last 3 years with Sunsail and Moorings being big customers obviously for their standard stock sails. I hope this info helps all those thinking of changing their headsail. I must say that I still think there is a strong argument in favour of mounting a second furler with a 140% overlapping genoa for light wind sailing for cruisers. ------------- Onwards and upwards Nidri, Levkada, Ionian, Greece Hanse 350 #7, SY Evolution, standard keel, 3YM20 sail drive, 3 cabins, cherry wood interior, teak decks, feathering prop |
Posted By: Brufan
Date Posted: 10 September 2013 at 14:02
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Swanji, Finally are you happy with your new Quantum ACL jib ? Have you got any battens on it ? Best regards ------------- Bruno hanse 355 - 57 S/Y Spicy Ginger White hull, 2 cabins, Volvo D1-30, Selden rig, removable mainsheet track system, Simrad (now B&G)-Jefa autopilot. |
Posted By: Swanji
Date Posted: 11 September 2013 at 08:55
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Hi Brufan Yes, the new jib has been a huge improvement. The new sail sets beautifully and really drives the boat even in lighter winds which I guess is down to the larger sail area, roach and battens we have had fitted to the leech. I also think the boat is better balanced with the mainsail being 35m2 and the headsail now 30m2 as opposed to 25m2 that it was before. I still think that there is an argument for a genoa as opposed to the self tacking jib as the standard sail. I would probably opt for a 130% genoa which would be capable of being sheeted in enough as the shrouds on the 350 are still inboard and not on the gunwale. The self tacker needs to have barber haulers for off wind sailing and in lighter winds a bigger headsail is preferable. Also in strong winds and heading downwind, I would prefer to use a genoa only and leave the mainsail in its bag. The argument for the self tacker is of course easy sailing and our new jib is as good as it gets for a self tacker IMO . We will be changing our mainsail to ACL laminate - fully battened, with 3 reefs and cunningham for next season and will use Quantum again. All the best ------------- Onwards and upwards Nidri, Levkada, Ionian, Greece Hanse 350 #7, SY Evolution, standard keel, 3YM20 sail drive, 3 cabins, cherry wood interior, teak decks, feathering prop |
Posted By: Brufan
Date Posted: 11 September 2013 at 09:37
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Swanji, Thanks for this feedback. Do you have any drawings of your Quantum Jib ? If so, can you put it online or PM ? Quantum send me an offer for a 25,5 mē jib (same area as original North Sails jib) Many thanks. ------------- Bruno hanse 355 - 57 S/Y Spicy Ginger White hull, 2 cabins, Volvo D1-30, Selden rig, removable mainsheet track system, Simrad (now B&G)-Jefa autopilot. |
Posted By: coriolis2
Date Posted: 16 September 2013 at 19:36
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Got a selftacker, main and 105% all of CAL-pentex, ordered at Gaastrasails. Performing well not to expensive. Mounted extra rails on the roof, 105% is the max that can be sheeted inside the shrouds. Have a 142% genua of ACL pentex, this one is only used up to 3-4. Thinking about an extra CAL pentex 120%. http://www.gaastrasails.nl/producten/1/Jachtzeilen/48/DynamiX_Custom_Axis_Laminate_" rel="nofollow - http://www.gaastrasails.nl/producten/1/Jachtzeilen/48/DynamiX_Custom_Axis_Laminate_ 
------------- "Coriolis" H350 #045 (ex Waarschip 570 #? 1987/1992, ex Waarschip 28LD #7 1994/2007) |
Posted By: Swanji
Date Posted: 23 September 2013 at 11:10
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Great image! If you were forced to choose one genoa, what size would you get for the H350? My guess is that a 130% genoa would be big enough to use the tracks on the side deck without modification and still get a decent sheeting angle? Also, I seem to recall that you mounted a traveller on the coachroof? Is it worth it or is too much of a compromise to a traveller in the cockpit? ------------- Onwards and upwards Nidri, Levkada, Ionian, Greece Hanse 350 #7, SY Evolution, standard keel, 3YM20 sail drive, 3 cabins, cherry wood interior, teak decks, feathering prop |
Posted By: coriolis2
Date Posted: 29 September 2013 at 09:18
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Swanji, I think 120% would fit well and could be sheeted on he side deck rail. I have NO traveller on on th coach but in the cockpit, use it a lot to control twist as you can see on the picture. I did mount rails on the coach for the 105% though ch works fine. You can see this also on the picture. Best regards, Rob ------------- "Coriolis" H350 #045 (ex Waarschip 570 #? 1987/1992, ex Waarschip 28LD #7 1994/2007) |