There are a few elements that I can help with here.

 

The Hanse has a hand built hull which costs considerably more than the faster, cheaper spray moulding technique preferred by the more mass produced options.  The result is a much more consistent laminate but more importantly the glass can be laid in strategic directions in relation to the forces on the hull and thus considerably stronger too.

 

The bulkheads are fully laminated to add further strength which again takes more time and thus costs more.

 

I agree that some of the options on the Hanse price list are over the top and we have a very good feel for what is good value and what is not having been dealers for many years.

 

The B&G Navigation Packs are extremely good value as it would be difficult to even buy all the parts for their fully installed price.  Somethings can be done less expensively by the dealer but probably not as many as you might think when it comes to looking at what is actually involved.

 

The stack pack for example can vary hugely in the quality of the cloth used.  Hanse used to use a much lighter cloth and the bag was cheaper but they only lasted a couple of seasons.  They now use a much heavier cloth.

 

Most models that have twin rudders these days also have a lifting keel option on their pricing and rather than develop 2 different steering systems for the relevant keel, they choose to do just one which has to work for whichever keel you choose.  With the lifting keel the twin rudders is essential as you would think.

 

All in all the Hanse is a more expensive yacht to build and thus the price is a slight premium but it is worth looking closely at each extra to see if it can be done better value elsewhere.

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

 

are you sure that Jeaneau is still using the chopper gun technique? I thought that most environmental laws in Europe is ruling this out. Spray moulding would result in a much heavier hull for the same laminate strength due to the lower fiber content inherent in this method.

 

I think that the twin rudders are a disadvantage when mooring in today's Marinas. You MUST have a bow thruster.

 

Just my 2cts

 

 

Twin rudder is very good for wide boats in the aft. Not just for lifting keels

 

Just for clarity as it is very important to Hanse.  ALL of their hulls are built by hand apart from the 630 which is vacuum infused.

 

The final weight of the boat could be lighter when built by hand as opposed to the chopper gun method thanks to the additional strength but Hanse choose to layup heavily and reinforce heavily to create a very stiff and strong hull which is where the extra weight comes from.

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

 

 

Phil, do you also know what type of fiberglass is used in the lamination? is it woven roving or chopped map (or a combination)? also important would be to understand the glass content %

thanks, cheers

Sandwich laminates are for shure lighter and stiffer.

 

This is a good question.

 

There is a very little chopped strand mat in a Hanse as it has next to no real strength.  This type of mat is used in the very outer layers especially where there is a sharp angle or somewhere intricate to mould as it is far more malleable than either woven or multiaxial rovings.

 

The majority of the structural lay up is a combination of woven and multiaxial depending on the direction the majority of the stresses are felt.

 

As an example between the shrouds where the majority of the stress is athwartships Hanse will use mostly woven rovings as they have superb tensile strength.

 

In a part of the hull without any specific stresses they will use multi axial as this is the best "all rounder".

 

I have to say i don't know what the glass content is though

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

 

These prices are off the top of my head so please excuse any errors

 

The Hanse Navigation Pack has the following items for a 345.

2 x B&G Triton displays with wind, speed, depth - Uninstalled are circa £1,300

1 x B&G 8" Zeus plotter - Uninstalled is circa £1,800

B & G autopilot - Uninstalled is circa £1,400

VHF Twin station VHF - Uninstalled is circa £550

GPS aerial - £300

Jefa DD1 drive for autopilot - £1,500

 

Total prior to installation is circa £6,850.  The pilot parts come to around £3,000 and the fitting is reasonably labour heavy.  There is no change out of around £3,800 from the local fitter here.

 

It will be possible to buy each element cheaper somewhere on line but for the purpose of explaining the Navigation Package price it helps to get a handle on it.

 

Maybe the big difference in the autopilot price is the use of the Jefa DD1 drive over a cheaper alternative.  The Hanse has a full Jefa steering system which have been brilliant over the years and great feel when sailing but they do require the use of their own drive which is not cheap.

 

The Uk commissioning pack price for a 345 which includes everything from antifouling to rigging, gas bottle, fire extinguishers, shore power lead, full day handover, launching, engine pre delivery checks etc is £5,207.

 

I would need to see the specification you are looking at to see what we would do as an aftermarket fit but this would vary on your delivery location and really your dealer is better positioned to offer this kind of advice as he may not be surrounded by the skills that we are lucky enough to have here.

 

I hope that helps a bit

 

Phil

 

On performance though, there is no comparison, the Hanse is just better and faster on all points of sail, and you can sail it singlehanded if you want to, which was much more difficult with the cataline (although of course not impossible). I think the 345 is pretty similar albeit a bit slower because of the size.

 

We went for the Hanse over the Jenneau/B boats because of the build techniques, but there were others on our list too.

 

Compared to the Cataline, some of the fittings are a bit lighter but these are easy to upgrade, and im not sure the others are any better until you get to the performance/racer cruiser bunch or like X yachts or the scandanavian boats, all of which are at another price level

 

Mark

how funny, we used to have a 320 as well. She was our first 'big boat' (both me and my wife grew up sailing small boats), easy to maintain and upgrade and pretty reliable.

We sold her 5 years ago when our son was born and want something a bit more modern now. My wife especially wants a boat no older than 5 years. We like the Catalina 355 but it does not fit in the slip we are expecting to get. My 4 yo son wants a fast boat 

We need something in the 33-35 (max) feet LOA range.

I really like the 345 feature wise, have good hopes for its performance under sail and we like the interior.

I will do more research on build techniques, but the French boats are very popular in charter fleets and they seem to hold up pretty well. And between B and J I think the Jeanneau has a hull targeted at more performance.

How did you think the Hanse compared to a Jeanneau under sail?

 Hi i think Dehler is faster

The standard draft on XP 38 is 2.1 meter but this is a (on the paper race) 

Dehler beam is 5 cm more and less wight so the draft difrent don't do much to speed i think

The real race is still to com i think

The overall feel of the build quality inside was better on the Hanse.

If felt that the aim of the  349 was to make it a nicer apartment style interior;  hence the double doors into the front cabin.  However if you look at the practical side, I thought that the front cabin was smaller on the 349, with less storage space.  In the main cabin, there is no storage space above the seats, they just have a shelf which in the brochure shots has either a flower or an ornament on it?  The Jeanneau rep was showing somebody the storage space, behind the seats, but would you want to go behind the seat cushions every time you want a can of soup?

There is only a single sink on the 349, whilst the 345 has a double sink and that does make a lot of difference when you are preparing meals and washing up.  Again the 345 had less storage space in the galley than the 345.

Whilst the sail areas are nominally similar, this is if you have the overlapping jib on the 349.  If you opt for a self tacker, then the sail area on the 349 will drop and hence it will be slower. The 345 was designed from the start to have a self tacker. 

 

Hopefully, when you buy a boat you are going to have it for a long time, so really think hard about the sailing you are going to do.  It is not good to buy a boat, unless you are really comfortable with it, otherwise you will regret the choice for a long time. 

Having the ladder integrated into the platform is a BIG  plus for the Jeanneau ( also for the Dufour ) from a practical and a safety aspect.  Unfortunately you can not retrofit on a Hanse this important feature. The laminate in the platform is too thin and there is no easy way to reinforce it from the inside. The emergency ladder in the stern is a joke, don't think that even a circus acrobat will be able to climb it without help.

 

BTW, how is the solution on the BAV 37 now ?

 

Having said all that its a pity that the ladder isn't stowed in the platform just better when going for a swim and no chance of letting go!

 

Just out of interest all current Hanses are fitted with an emergency pull out ladder on the transom which can be deployed easily by the person in the water if needed.

 

This is in addition to the bathing ladder

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

 

has someone ever tried out this ladder? Or is it just to satisfy some stupid CE requirement?

 

I did try it out last summer and I had utmost difficulties to get on board in a mirror flat sea, it was impossible without help from above

 

 

 

I would think it is to satisfy the requirements mainly and I have never tried to use one thankfully.

 

I really enjoy threads like this and it is important to remember that although the designers keep a close eye on the safety aspects of their designs this is not the only thing they consider when designing.

 

I would expect that if you were in a situation that sinking was a real prospect the raft would be out and launched ready.

 

Interestingly I was discussing this with a colleague who has sailed many many thousands of miles and he would not go for a coachroof mounted liferaft as he had it ripped off the deck of a Halberg Rassy in a storm and had watch it fly away!

 

I guess there is no perfect solution to anything but it is interesting to see what each builder does.

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

As mentioned before, it is really hard to look at a new boat and see all the small points that you are going to like and dislike through its long life.  Since you own a boat already, start by noting down at all the things you like and dislike on your boat and then look at the options.  The choice nowadays seems to be going more to "do you want a sailing boat?" (and I am happy with my Hanse) or "do you wanting a floating apartment?".   

 

We have been away for a few days.  It was only a mini review and I still have not seen a picture of a 349 sailing.  If you pm me your email address, then I will scan it and send it to you.

 

Martin

I'm sure there will be reviews coming in the next 2 months or so. The first 349 is expected to arrive at the local dealer in May. Unfortunately the local Hanse dealer only has big boats (415, 445 and 505) so our only chance at a 345 test sail is in SoCA or Europe (we'll be there in July). 

We test sailed a Dufour 335 GL today. The Dufour sailed very well I thought but the wife is not too keen about the interior. I thought it felt quite a bit smaller than some other boats of similar size, probably because it has a dedicated navigation seat. 

B is coming out with the Oceanis 35 (smaller version of the new 38) later this year. We test sailed the Oceanis 34 and I was not too keen about it. But I'm curious about the new 35.

It looks like all the major builders are going for twin wheels, self-tacker (at least as an option, which we don't feel very strongly about), folding swim platforms, lighter interior colors and more windows for more light inside.

I have not been able to figure out if there really is a big difference in build quality between these boats (B, J, Dufour, Hanse).