Battery Life
Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 400
Forum Description: 400 Hints, Tips and News
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8273
Printed Date: 26 March 2026 at 23:50
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Battery Life
Posted By: ersgill
Subject: Battery Life
Date Posted: 19 March 2014 at 14:53
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Dear Forum, I have a 400 from 2011, fitted with two Victron 165ah domestic batteries (I believe new when I collected the boat). Two years down the line they are lasting probably 50% of the time when new (I haven't increased the demand for power, batteries are connect to shore power when in the marina and I use the boat between 50 and 70 days per year). I can't help feeling there is something wrong either with the batteries themselves (now out of warranty...) or my charging routine. Has anyone experienced something similar? Any ideas on how I might check the charging equipment is working properly? Easiest way to check the condition of the batteries? Yours in anticipation (by candlelight)
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Replies:
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 19 March 2014 at 17:42
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Hi, What kind of Victron batteries? Which charger? Is the charger correctly adjusted for the batteries? Overcharging with the wrong charger will kill the batteries. Battery maintenance is an art! ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: samuel
Date Posted: 19 March 2014 at 20:42
Yes you are quite correct 50-70 days is nowhere near enough !!!!!  ------------- Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex |
ersgill wrote:Posted By: hanafe
Date Posted: 19 March 2014 at 23:23
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I have exactly the same feeling about my AGM Victron 165 AH from year 2011. We got a new charger installed and the installer did not put the settings via laptop for battery type etc, but I do not believe that this is the reason as they were not "cooked". Maximum charging is 14.5 Volt which is line for AGMs. Now the charger goes to absorption and float within minutes. As we have no shore power I can not use the float for a couple of hours to see if they fully charge. After charging it shows 12.6 and falls to 12.4 within 20 minutes without load of course. So I guess they are done. The bow and starter battery, also AGM seem to be fine. We charge, by engine every weekend, several times when the engine is used. Maybe 4 to 6 times a weekend, maybe around 200 short cycles a year. Any opinion would be appreciated. HanaFe |
Posted By: gertha
Date Posted: 20 March 2014 at 08:22
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The easiest way to check the batteries is take them off and give them to a professional to check; there is nothing you can do on board that is 100% . Also ia profesional in a workshop maybe able to get some more life out of them. Simon ------------- Swanned off |
Posted By: Rubato
Date Posted: 20 March 2014 at 16:43
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If the settings on the charger are wrong (i.e. not for the right battery type), then 2 things will happen: it will shorten the life of the battery and you will likely not get the full charge from them. So, first thing to correct if it's wrong is the battery type settings. Then see what charge you get from them and lastly replace if necessary. Note that any boat with a standard alternator/regulator (just like that used in a car) can only use lead-acid batteries. IF you want to use AGM, you need to install a smart charger or smart alternator or similar - Balmar has them, Sterling supplies different styles of converters as well. So if you're upgrading, do the whole system, not just the batteries. I have a 2007 400e and just continue to use rather inexpensive lead-acid (heavy duty, deep cycle) as they're a lot cheaper than the newer technologies. So far, I've got 4-5 years out of most of them.... good luck ------------- Steve Hanse 400e, #168 |
Posted By: Rubato
Date Posted: 20 March 2014 at 16:44
------------- Steve Hanse 400e, #168 |
Posted By: CharlesP
Date Posted: 21 March 2014 at 00:03
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These are the general principals as far as I understand. Battery capacity always reduces over the course of time. If it is well looked after, it can last five years or more before either the capacity has reduced to an unacceptable level for house battery purposes, or it has insufficient power to turn the engine sufficiently fast for it to start. The standard engine alternator will recharge the battery from 50 % to about 85% capacity in around two hours! but could take a further five hours plus for a further 10%. The reason is that the charge builds up on the battery plates surfaces and takes time to migrate into the plate. This "queue" fools the alternator into thinking that the battery is more charged than it actually is, so it reduces the amount of charge and the battery never actually attains full charge. When a battery is not fully charged, it sulphates, which is a coating on the plates which hardens over time and prevents any charge going into the plates. Therefore the progression of never being fully charged and and increasing sulphates gradually reduces capacity. A smart charger overcomes the "queue" to a large extent and also the soft sulphates before they become too hard, but battery capacity will reduce over time but not to the same extent over a given period. Therefore, the advice would be to use a smart charger all the time; if this is not possible, use one at least monthly; and make sure it is adjusted to give the correct charge for the battery type, as others have said. Ersgill I am sure you 2011 yacht will have a smart charger connected when you are connected to shore power. You will need to read the manual to see that it has been set correctly for your batteries. If you really do have a much reduced capacity, it sounds as if your batteries may need replacing. Do you have a battery monitor, which is a great help for monitoring batteries. If you do, you will notice that when you use the battery, it's capacity seems to fall very quickly initially and this is because the current is being taken from the surface of the plate and it then takes a while for the current within the plate to reach the surface - when you then stop drawing current, the battery capacity seemingly starts to increase because the current within the plate reaches the surface and equalises through the plate; you can then measure the actual battery capacity. When you recharge a battery, the converse is true, that is, you will only get an accurate state of charge if you let the battery rest for an hour or so. Charles ------------- 'MERIDIAN LADY' 320 Nr 536 2010 Medway |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 21 March 2014 at 01:04
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Hi, AGM and GEL batteries are easier to take care of than traction lead acid batteries but if you neglect them they get distroyed. Lead acid batteries on the contrary can be (and should be) equalized once every 3 weeks (by slight overcharging) and desulfated every three months(heavy overcharging). During overcharging they "loose" some electrolyte and it must be replaced.If taken care of they last more than 15 years! AGM and GEL batteries do not tolerate overcharging so they cannot be equalized and after several (hundreds) charge-discharge cycles the battery gets as week as the weakest cell. This condition is irreversible. For all the above reasons AGM and GEL batteries are only suitable for weekend boat use. 20 weekends and three weeks vacation per year adds up to about 50 cycles per year resulting a life expectancy of 5-7 years (about 300 cycles). Liveaboards should always choose big traction type 2V cell batterie banks which have a 2500 cycles + 300 overcharging cycles life expectancy, although they are a little bit more complicated to take care of. The bank should have such a capacity to last for 2 days. With 160 normal plus 20 overcharging cycles per year they last over 15 years! ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: Nigel Fontaine
Date Posted: 24 March 2014 at 16:10
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Ok...... Let me weigh in here We have a 2010 Hanse 400 with a yanmar engine 40hp, 30 amp Sterling charger, three vitron AGM batteries, one 60 am house and two 120 amp each for house, all factory installed. We purchased the boat in late 2012. I noticed then but didn't think it significant that the batteries would never charge to full capacity. Last summer while on a trip everything started to shut down. Eventually no power. Fortunaly the starter battery had a charge and we could get the engine going. We pulled the house batteries and had them checked professionally, both were toast! This was odd as they were virtually new. We replaced them and all seemed fine until at the end of the summer we noticed the batteries were again not charging the batteries to full capacity. I also noticed that the two red warning lights on the charger came on a short time after tuning it on. The manual indicated that the red lights signaled overcharging and overheating. Having installed new AGMs I felt strongly it was the charger. Of course the warranty had expired. We contacted Serling who were sympathetic and ask the charger be sent to them for analysis. We did and they said it tested fine and the red lights functioned as designed. I had a similar problem with a different Sterling charger on a different boat two years previous. They replaced that charger with a different type and all was fine. Unfortunatly, they declined this time as it was out of warranty. I am currently in the process of replacing the existing charger with one similar to the replacement charger on the other boat. The replacement charger is also a Sterling product. I am a little disappointed Sterling didn't replace the charger as I believe it is a manufacturer issue but I guess that is part of boat ownership and seasonal use. By the way my Hanse broker was great all through this and did what they could and more. I'll post the results next month after the new charger is installed and the boat is again in the water. Tenacity |
Posted By: alidal
Date Posted: 24 March 2014 at 19:09
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I also have a Hanse 400 from 2010. My battery is in very good condition..... I have this charger: Sterling Pro Charge D 12 V 30 A Serienr 005328 Battery: Victron 150 Amp, AGM ------------- Hanse 400#655 |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 24 March 2014 at 21:00
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Hi, Having a good charger doesn't solve any problem. The charger parameters need careful setup. If the boat is equipped with a charge current splitter (diodes) their voltage drop MUST be taken into account! In my 630 (equipped with such a device) the charger was simply set to AGM without increasing the voltage parameters by 0.65V which is the voltage drop across the heavy diodes. This resulted the batteries to be constantly undercharged untill we found the cause and reprogrammed the excellent SCYLLA charger. ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: Wild
Date Posted: 25 March 2014 at 10:57
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Hello Our 545(same for the 470) 2010 have a complete other battery charging setup.There are no diodes(charge current splitter)I do have the complete wiring drawings for 540-545 and 470 from 2010. Original the Victron Multi plus(we change to QUATTRO)charger-inverter charge, or when motor running the alternator,only the house battery bank 4x165 amp AGM,the starter batt is ONLY charged by the separated second charger output (4A)of the Multi plus charger and never by the altenator, and because the charger-inverter is constantly on,the starter batt is charged 24/24 hours by the 4Amp line. The bowtruster batt (2x12V =24V)are charged only by a small Victron ORION charger-inverter 12V-24V DC-DC 360Watt(12A) who gets his power directly(not switched)from the house batt and give a constantly 27,6V.(The weakest point of the install IMO) After 3 years when we started the new season the 4 Victron AGM housebatt. where complete flat.We use never wall power during winter and never disconnect the batterys cables complete for the winter,only switched of the engine and main batt switch and all the panel switches till now. But in our system are serveral users(heating,aut.bilgepump VHF ,ORION inverter )connected constandly (not switched)to the housebattery bank.I believe one of these have use power during winter and empty the batt. By example if there is a small loss of power from the bow truster 24v circuit, the ORION inverter will running all the time to keep the bowtruster batt loaded even with the main switch off. When we start charging the flat batt.they become cooked and destroyed.VICTRON reaction:This is normal when older(?) AGM batterys get complete flat even for one time,they are finish.And when the enviroment(we are in Turkey)is constant 30°C or more the AGM battery life time is MAX 2-3 years when you live a board for 6-7 months/year. From now before winter we loaded the batt. full and disconnect all the battery cables and hope for the best. Panos So all three batt banks are charged complete separated I am shure there are now charge current spliters invalved. I believe in this config we dont have to increase the voltage parameters(the charge setup is now:standard AGM-GEL)of the Quattro Charger? ------------- Wild and Wet Belgium 545e#268 |
Posted By: CharlesP
Date Posted: 25 March 2014 at 11:25
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Wild - is it possible for you to connect a solar panel for the Winter period and then your batteries will stay topped up. We have a permanent 35amp panel. Before this permanent panel, we fitted a temporary panel every Winter. Charles ------------- 'MERIDIAN LADY' 320 Nr 536 2010 Medway |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 25 March 2014 at 19:09
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@Wild. Of course if there is a charger per bank it is the best and the setup is straightforward. I do not understand the need of multiple batterie banks besides the safety of a separate starter batterie. When I change the betteries next year I most probably will throw away the diodes and connect the new batteries as a single 700Ah X 24V bank. Since I don't like batteries connected in parallel either, I will use 12 2V cell used in forklifts. Each cell will be 700Ah X 2V flooded traction technology. ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: Swanji
Date Posted: 26 March 2014 at 07:07
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Hi Wild Interesting decision you have come to re your AGM batteries. As you know we upgraded our DC system last year to Victron AGM's - starter and domestic - and fitted a new Balmar smart charger for alternator to battery charging to ensure that the AGM's are not overcharged. We also had to change our shore power smart charger at the same time. We decided against using a solar panel for trickle charging during winter as the AGM's are supposed to hold their current for very long periods. To quote from the battery manual Because of the use of lead calcium grids and high purity materials, Victron AGM batteries can be stored during long periods of time without recharge. The rate of self-discharge is less than 2% per month at 20°C. The self discharge doubles for every increase in temperature with 10°C. Victron AGM batteries can therefore be stored during up to a year without recharging, if kept under cool conditions. Obviously one needs to take into account whatever else is draining the battery like bilge pumps, heaters, etc even after the main battery switch is turned off. As we are 4 owners, we run the boat off checklists to make sure that all the owners are on the same page. One of our checklists is an end of season checklist. I am now thinking of disconnecting the batteries completely after fully charging them when the boat has been put on the hard for winter due to your experience. Anyone else with other thoughts? ------------- Onwards and upwards Nidri, Levkada, Ionian, Greece Hanse 350 #7, SY Evolution, standard keel, 3YM20 sail drive, 3 cabins, cherry wood interior, teak decks, feathering prop |
Posted By: CharlesP
Date Posted: 26 March 2014 at 09:53
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When we store our boat for the Winter, our batteries stay connected and we are still visiting periodically. At these times, we switch on various equipment and instruments as we understand that this helps to keep the items dry internally and working. The solar panel will therefore recharge and keep the batteries topped up between visits. We will also connect to the mains with the shore power lead occasionally and run the boat heater, which will also recharge the battery. The battery monitor is a great help in being aware of what is going on. Charles ------------- 'MERIDIAN LADY' 320 Nr 536 2010 Medway |
Posted By: Swanji
Date Posted: 26 March 2014 at 10:07
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Hi Charles Totally agree on the battery monitor - we fitted a Dutch WhisperPro which is small enough to have been fitted into the 12V panel and gives us everything we need to know in terms of usage. Our boat is kept in Croatia and soon to be Greece - we live in the UK and South Africa so no chance of periodic trips during winter. Boats like life are a compromise. We chose the AGM's for their low maintenance, low discharge, one type of battery for starter and domestic even though the AGM's are more suited as starter batteries. Generally smart chargers are better for a single battery type and so there were many compromises. If we were liveaboards, then our decision would have been different. I totally agree that conventional lead acid batteries are the best value and last longest PROVIDING they are maintained the way Panos outlined earlier. ------------- Onwards and upwards Nidri, Levkada, Ionian, Greece Hanse 350 #7, SY Evolution, standard keel, 3YM20 sail drive, 3 cabins, cherry wood interior, teak decks, feathering prop |
Posted By: Martin&Rene
Date Posted: 26 March 2014 at 15:35
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We are fortunate at Largs in that we have direct access to power when the boat is ashore during the winter. I bring the shore power lead direct into the boat saloon and then connect it to a 4 way extension lead block with the appropriate socket. Into the extension block I put 2 timers. One is on for a few hours every night for a low wattage heater. A lead from the other timer goes back to the normal yacht shore power input point and I leave the battery charger on and the timer is set to run for 30-60mins per day just to keep the batteries topped up during the 3 months when I am away from the yacht. ------------- Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout, normally based in Scotland |
Posted By: Theo Hin
Date Posted: 01 April 2014 at 22:19
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On my hanse 400 I encounterd also that the 2 victron 165ah batteries are drop dead after 2 years. The boat was launched in may 211 and exactly after 25 moths the batteries are broken down. It seems that more hanse yachts deal with this problem. I noticed also that the batteries do leak. See my photo. The question is what did cause that the batteries do break down so quick, is it the sterling charger, is it a wirring problem in the boat or is the altenator on the volvo killing the batteries. I don,t know. ------------- S/Y Geisha |
Posted By: seileren1
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 13:56
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Advice on charging. One issue
during the long and cold winter hibernation (3-4 months) is how often the
batteries should be charged. Should they stay connected to shore power through
the winter off course via a smart charger or disconnected for a month and then charged. Any views? |
Posted By: CharlesP
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 17:01
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The battery should not suffer if it is left connected to a smart charger because the smart charger will only trickle in sufficient charge to keep the battery topped up. However, I do not like leaving chargers connected to the mains electricity while I am away for lengthy periods, so My procedure would be to use some of the battery capacity by turning on a few items when I visit and then put the charger on while I am still there, periodically checking the battery monitor, and then disconnect it when I leave after the charger has gone through its sequence of stages. Charles ------------- 'MERIDIAN LADY' 320 Nr 536 2010 Medway |
Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 03 April 2014 at 04:01
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Hi, Be very careful when charging batteries in sub zero temperatures. If for any reason the electrolyte is frozen charging will permanently destroy the batterie. Since the freezing point depends on the density of the electrolyte (state of charge of the battery) it is difficult to determine if the electrolyte has turned into ice, especially in a closed (AGM or GEL batterie). I advise to heat the batteries for more than 72 hours to 20C before charging and don't let them connected to an automatic charger. If possible the best practice is to remove them and store at home in a heated room. ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: CharlesP
Date Posted: 03 April 2014 at 08:32
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I've never had to worry about freezing temperature. I understand that battery electrolyte will freeze at minus 90 degrees Farhenhite when fully charged. However, when only 40% charged it will freeze at minus 15 degrees Farhenhite. Charles ------------- 'MERIDIAN LADY' 320 Nr 536 2010 Medway |
Posted By: seileren1
Date Posted: 03 April 2014 at 21:43
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Hello again, a discharged battery will freeze at about -6 degrees C and a fully charged battery will for all practical purposes never freeze. By keeping the temperature above -10 C and not having a flat battery, there are almost no chance of batteries freezing. I keep the boat in the water and with a small heater (500w) the coldest I have had is -5 degrees, with -20 outside. So very low probability of freezing. The issue I was posting was continious trickle charging vs charging once in a while. Cheers |
Posted By: CharlesP
Date Posted: 03 April 2014 at 22:08
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Continuous trickle charging will, in my view and experience, keep your batteries in top condition. The smart charger will reduce the charging rate to zero when the battery is fully charged. Charles ------------- 'MERIDIAN LADY' 320 Nr 536 2010 Medway |
Posted By: kiwihanse
Date Posted: 03 April 2014 at 23:37
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Hi, I have just joined this thread, I have a 2007 400 that I have just replaced the house and start batteries after 7 years which is fine. They were Varta. However, another owner with a 2010 or 2011 400 had his batteries die after 2 years. He had them checked out and the technician suggested they may be fakes ( Chinese ???) as he said the were a very good brand. Unbelievable I know, but maybe????? Cheers ------------- kiwihanse 400e Any two yachts heading in the same direction, then it's a race! |
Posted By: Nigel Fontaine
Date Posted: 04 April 2014 at 13:28
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I hadn't considered 'fake batteries' but that too could be a possibility. Regardless, it seems there are too many incidents of the same type to ignor that there is a problem on some of our boats. Has anyone notified Hanse? I still haven't installed the new charger as the boat is still on the hard iced in. I probably won't have an answer for some time yet. I still think it is the charger as this was the problem the last time. The problem was resolved after a new and different type of charger was installed. As a matter of interest our other boat (2011 355) had a 30 HP Volvo while this one (2010 400) has a Yanmar 40 HP so the alternator is probably not the issue. I will keep everyone posted.
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Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 04 April 2014 at 14:00
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We have a completely separate 230V circuit for charging so there is minimal danger of fire or short circuit. We let the charger on. It will keep on a "float" voltage and every few days give a bulk charge. We have a Skylla Victron Energy smart charger. ------------- Panos Hanse 630e - selling her - |
Posted By: ersgill
Date Posted: 13 April 2014 at 19:11
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Thank you all for a most enlightening series of posts. Now the boat is back in the water, I will check the shore owner charger. I am having a battery monitor fitted tomorrow (should have done this 2 years ago - isn't the retrospect-o-graph a wonderful device.....!) I believe the Volvo Penta D2-40 comes with an intelligent alternator, but will investigate further. Ultimately I will have to replace the house batteries, but not until I have isolated my original problem. |
Posted By: simonpickard
Date Posted: 31 March 2015 at 03:10
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Good thread. We've got a 385. And we're having battery issues at the moment. We've found that if on shore power for long the batteries get very hot. It's like they are getting overcharged although over battery monitor doesn't really show this. I believe the shore power charger on the 385 is a 'Quick' charger brand. I can't find ANY details about this anywhere. We have the standard cruising batteries. 2 x 165amp gel's I believe. No idea what's going on. It's almost as if the charger sometimes gets it right and then sometimes doesn't. I don't like red hot batteries though. |
Posted By: Nigel Fontaine
Date Posted: 31 March 2015 at 03:15
| I had this happen to me twice on two different boats. Both times it was the charger. What type do you have? |
Posted By: simonpickard
Date Posted: 31 March 2015 at 03:25
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It's a 'Quick' make. But I can't find much more info than that. Very weird. Sometimes it takes ages when I reconnect to shore power for the charger to turn off. I've also noticed that if the batteries get hot (which they sometimes do when back on shore power after a while off) I need to disconnect from shore, leave it a while, and then reconnect. Then the charger seems to work and turn off when it should. It has been very hot here also as well, maybe that hasn't helped. I've been off shore power for a few hours now and they are still very hot to the touch. |
Posted By: Nigel Fontaine
Date Posted: 31 March 2015 at 03:32
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The old charger cooked my batteries (2 yrs old). I replaced the charger with a pronautic charger (UK) two years ago and so far all is good. http://promariner.com/products/dry-mount-marine-battery-chargers/pronauticp-series/ |