SD 50 service
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Forum Name: 400
Forum Description: 400 Hints, Tips and News
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9096
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Topic: SD 50 service
Posted By: Setanta
Subject: SD 50 service
Date Posted: 28 June 2015 at 14:43
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Hi SD50 saildrive owners. We all know about the 500 hour service that Yanmar expects us to complete. The cone clutch is now slipping on my 2007 Hanse 400 and my mechanic tells me that he has to remove the engine from its mounts to get at the clutch. Is this true? Sounds crazy to me What should I expect to pay for this work? Thanks for any insight.
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Replies:
Posted By: Rubato
Date Posted: 28 June 2015 at 17:01
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This topic came up a few months ago in another thread. It made me bookmark the following article which seemed to outline a sound method of replacing the cone clutch without moving the engine. Also, I saw articles that gave a method of "resurfacing" the cone rather than buying a new one... http://www.sailblogs.com/member/leucat/?xjMsgID=184652" rel="nofollow - Steve ------------- Steve Hanse 400e, #168 |
Posted By: Idelfix
Date Posted: 28 June 2015 at 21:29
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Hi No, you do not need to move the motor, you just need to loosen 4 nuts, but bee careful not to loosen them completely uploads/1944/Yanmar_SD40-SD50_cone_clutch.pdf" rel="nofollow - uploads/1944/Yanmar_SD40-SD50_cone_clutch.pdf
------------- "Keep sailing in free wind" http://suhrfa.blogspot.se |
Posted By: Mark_J1
Date Posted: 29 June 2015 at 08:49
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Thanks Guys. Both really useful documents for my 'How to' file! Mark ------------- Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31 |
Posted By: Setanta
Date Posted: 06 July 2015 at 13:52
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Thanks for the info gentlemen but has anyone had the procedure done on a 400 without removing the engine? My mechanic says that there is not enough clearance in the engine compartment to extract the cone clutch without separating the engine and saildrive. I think I am about to be ripped off! |
Posted By: Dråpen
Date Posted: 06 July 2015 at 14:35
You are about to be ripped off!!! I have changed the cone cluch on my Hanse 370 last year and belive me, you don't need to separate the engine and saildrive! I used the procedure described by LeuCat and it worked perfect. http://www.sailblogs.com/member/leucat/?xjMsgID=184652" rel="nofollow -
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Setanta wrote:Posted By: Idelfix
Date Posted: 06 July 2015 at 17:35
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All you need is 200 mm above the top of SD50 to lift up the cylinder ------------- "Keep sailing in free wind" http://suhrfa.blogspot.se |
Posted By: Rubato
Date Posted: 06 July 2015 at 18:08
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Setanta This is definitely not an easy space to work in, it's tight. It's a pain in the butt just trying to put oil in the SD never mind tearing it down. However, pulling the engine forward by separating it from the SD is not going to create more space above or on the sides of the SD. ------------- Steve Hanse 400e, #168 |
Posted By: Hudson30
Date Posted: 11 July 2015 at 00:12
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Have just had my cones redone on my Hanse 400 (2009). At first thought it was the cable but having had that adjusted still couldn't engage forward. Had a discussion with the Yanmar dealer last week and he informed me that they would be able to do it with the boat in the water and no requirement to move the engine. As per the other messages in this post there are several instructions available online to do it yourself with no need to move the engine - just loosen the 4 bolts. The dealer has done this a few times with a number of different production boats all with SD50 sail drives. They did the work yesterday and I am now looking forwards to taking her out on the water this weekend. Total cost under $1000.00 Australian. Further the dealer has said once this is done then the SD 50 saildrive should no longer face the polishing issues of the cones that the SD 50 is known for. I guess the replacement parts may address this problem - not sure but hope so. |
Posted By: Zorro
Date Posted: 14 July 2015 at 22:06
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Hi Hudson Sorry to say that you might need to fix it every now and then. I changed for a second time last winter as we polished our cone last year again after 4 year. I changed propeller this winter to a flexofold 3 blade folding - it might have some effect as well. I had many talks with the guru on Yanmar Sweden and received an instruction how to use the gear, how to turn off the engine when going into sail, learned that you should minimize going below 2 knot (trolling fish), not sail and going with the engine at the same time - sail should never push the boat forward when you go with the engine. There is so much to think of and I was very close to change to a Volvo D2 from my yanmar 3JH4E 39 hp SD50. I have a brand new clutch cone if anyone is interested - Yanmar claimes there is no construction mistake but i believe owners have a different opinion throughout the world. As it wassn't enough to encounter the problems every now and then - Yanmar increased the spare parts quite much for the clutch cone the last year - I believe about 40%!!! Z______________________________
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Posted By: Hudson30
Date Posted: 15 July 2015 at 02:42
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Hi Zorro Just spoke to the Yanmar dealer you are correct in saying that it is an ongoing matter for the SD50 sail drives. He has not replaced the cone but lapped it and replaced thrust bearings and a few other small parts. I would be interested in your spare cone given I will have to replace mine eventually. If you could send me an email on hudson30@gmail.com with the price hat would be helpful. I asked also about the ongoing running of the saildrive to reduce wear - as per your comments but he was not aware of anything in particular that would reduce wear of the cones - he was going to call the national Yanmar specialist to check - I will pass on anything I hear from him to the forum I am now looking forwards to sailing this weekend!! |
Posted By: Rock
Date Posted: 15 July 2015 at 08:12
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Guys, Surely all of us with SD50 saildrives are watching this topic closely. While I have not had issues with my shifting/clutch (yet), I'm anticipating. How does the problem start?, you shift forward but the gears don't engage, i.e. engine revving without propulsion? Is the problem both in forward and backward? From the first moment you notice the issue, can you still use the engine, how longs does it take to get progressively worse/unworkable? Can you still counter the problem initially by adjusting the morse cables? Many questions, I know, but would very much like to understand as we are starting a 3 week trip on the boat. Peter. ------------- Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241 |
Posted By: Zorro
Date Posted: 15 July 2015 at 10:52
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Hi Peter, It will come slowly. Each time it was difficult to get the forward to work. However - if I put the gear stick in forward really fast and tough it will engage but you will not like the sound. I guess it is mostly in forward you will encounter the problem so you can always go in reverse. However going in reverse from you vacation might not be the most fun project (if there is no wind). Sad thing is the cost to replace and fix every now and then... Yanmar doesn't take any resonsibility. I think they should price the clutch cones really low and support owners instead.... Z______________________________
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Posted By: StavrosNZ
Date Posted: 20 July 2015 at 23:34
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I like many of you had to deal with an SD50 cone re-lap at 200hrs with no motor sailing, nothing caught around the prop and no reason for clutch wear other than recreational use. screams of not being fit for purpose in my book. Yanmar have designed a lemon and are ducking and diving on this all over the world. It needs a collective group to pool resources and take action against Yanmar to make them deal with this head on. If a group of like minded owners are prepared to join forces i would add my own experience and some time and money into an action against them. ------------- Stephen 2010 H400 #691, Auckland, New Zealand |
Posted By: Heikki
Date Posted: 14 July 2016 at 18:11
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Hi everybody, It seems I am facing the clutch problem now. I have read the instructions given in mentioned uploads. There is a big difference in number of lappings. Leucat says: push and turn the gear about 5 times both clockwise and counterclockwise. Whereas the other instruction tells you to do it 50 times. I think the latter is closer to correct just based on common sense. What do you say who have done the job? Regards Heikki |
Posted By: astarte
Date Posted: 14 July 2016 at 20:33
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Hi all, Just started to have the same problem. The clutch is slipping now and then. Just about to do my summer cruise, so how long does it take before I really get severe problems? At the end, polish or replace the cone? Kristoffer ------------- Kristoffer Hanse 370e #412 |
Posted By: Idelfix
Date Posted: 14 July 2016 at 21:10
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Check this videos one of p-box one for Clutch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoOu8okyRD0" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoOu8okyRD0 ------------- "Keep sailing in free wind" http://suhrfa.blogspot.se |
Posted By: Mark_J1
Date Posted: 14 July 2016 at 21:53
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Heikki - you can see the surface glaze before lapping the surface. The job is done when the surface is evenly a matt finish. I had help in doing this so I'm speaking from observation rather than expertise. However it took a lot longer to disassemble the cone clutch assembly than do the lapping. Kristoffer - not sure it's easy to forecast. Too many variables. However on my boat it went from the first slip event to occasional slipping to every other time I engaged forward gear over about 2 weeks of coastal sailing (roughly 30-40 engine hours with a mix of conditions). At that point I didn't risk it further. If the worse happens you'll probably still have reverse! Mark ------------- Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31 |
Posted By: Rock
Date Posted: 15 July 2016 at 12:38
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It's not cheap, but I decided to get away from the SD50 mess altogether (clutch slippage and seal leaks) by getting an SD60. Figured that multiple new clutches (appears inevitable) and seal replacements ( the seals are not the cost but the repair is costly) are more costly in the long run. Also now have brand new saildrive with new factory warranty again. SD 60 is new design, has no cone clutch (back to reliable plate clutch), and it is designed stronger (takes up to 110 hp engines). I got the SD60 at what I believe to be close to 'cost' from yanmar. Seems yanmar is happy to get SD50's out of the market. Including installation still looking at 4+K, but priceless 'peace of mind' Peter ------------- Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241 |
Posted By: Mark_J1
Date Posted: 15 July 2016 at 14:19
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Forgot to mention for those that haven't experienced the slipping clutch, it was a little weird the first time it happened. It was like I had rope around the feathering prop preventing the prop from biting. I did still have some forward propulsion (maybe 1 knot) but the revs were much too high. Odd sensation and even more so if you aren't on the helm yourself at the time. It was only when I took the helm myself and dropped out & back into gear that I got the 'clunk' sound that others mention when the clutch finally bites. Makes you very certain you do a gear selection test before any departure! Mark ------------- Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31 |
Posted By: Zorro
Date Posted: 15 July 2016 at 15:17
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Hi Rocky, 4000 +E seems like a reasonable cost if both material and serviceman was included. I would have chosen this option if the cost was same in Sweden. Over here they charge around 7' Euro. I changed cone for the second time last year and had numerous discussions with Yanmar Sweden. In the end they made an instruction how to handle the SD40/SD50 during mortoring/sailing in order to save the cone from damage. The funny thing is that Yanmar has increased the cluch cone from around 600 Euro to 800 in Sweden.... They are really taking advantage of the siution and milking the poor sailors.... I have a brand new clucth cone for sail if anyone is interested SD40/SD50. I bought it for 600 Euro in US but Yanmar refused to use this part. To get the warranty you should buy it in Sweden...
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Posted By: astarte
Date Posted: 18 July 2016 at 17:09
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Anyone that can help? I have just removed the drive cone assembly following the links given earlier in this thread. It was easy and quick. However I am not able to loosening the end nut to disassemble the cone unit. Any advice from people who have done this before? Regards Kristoffer ------------- Kristoffer Hanse 370e #412 |
Posted By: alettaenmarcel
Date Posted: 18 July 2016 at 17:38
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The end nut is for one time use only. I removerd it with a dremel flex. By mounting i used a new nut. Gr Marcel ------------- Kids Dingys 72-79 ,Several Windsurfboards 79-86 OK dingy competitions 86-92 , Trotter Pandora Race 92-98, Friendship 28 Sport 98-05, Hanse 370 06-...... |
Posted By: astarte
Date Posted: 18 July 2016 at 17:49
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Hi Marcel, Do I understand you correctly that you split the nut? Regards Kristoffer. ------------- Kristoffer Hanse 370e #412 |
Posted By: MasterKeil
Date Posted: 19 July 2016 at 09:07
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Hi Zorro, could you post the instructions for motorsailing? And: Did you use the new long SD oil dripstick or the short version? The problem is, that the oil-level and therefore the oilpressure is too high when using the short stick. ------------- Hanse 370#640 "Nemesis" |
Posted By: MasterKeil
Date Posted: 19 July 2016 at 15:47
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Hi Zorro, could you post the instructions for motorsailing? And: Did you use the new long SD oil dripstick or the short version? The problem is, that the oil-level and therefore the oilpressure is too high when using the short stick. ------------- Hanse 370#640 "Nemesis" |
Posted By: astarte
Date Posted: 20 July 2016 at 16:52
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Hi, Have just finished repairing my drive cone. Did it together with a friend with mechanical background. Actually quite easy. Most difficult was to loosen the end nut. Lapping was straight forward. Fantastic with all the info in this forum. Great thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. Regards Kristoffer. ------------- Kristoffer Hanse 370e #412 |
Posted By: alettaenmarcel
Date Posted: 20 July 2016 at 17:45
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Yes , I did split the nut and used a new one wenn reasembling . Gr Marcel ------------- Kids Dingys 72-79 ,Several Windsurfboards 79-86 OK dingy competitions 86-92 , Trotter Pandora Race 92-98, Friendship 28 Sport 98-05, Hanse 370 06-...... |
Posted By: Heikki
Date Posted: 22 July 2016 at 21:22
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Hi Kristoffer, Could you please describe in detail how you finally loosened the end nut. Did you use the same nut when reassembling the clutch? How did you lock it? This seems to be the most complicated part of the clutch repair. Heikki |
Posted By: astarte
Date Posted: 23 July 2016 at 08:40
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Hi Hekki, The end nut has an inner part (ring) that is caulked into a groove in the shaft. Use a flat screw driver to open this. I had to drill it, but that has to be done very carefully so you not damage the threads on the shaft. In addition the end nut is fastened with Locktite, so you have to use quite some force. You can put the wrench into a pipe to get more force. I went to a mechanical workshop and they used an air operated wrench to loosen it for me. Remember the end nut is left threaded!! You have to put the whole assembly into a vice. Actually you should put the spline into a socket. This is unbelievable expensive from Yanmar. You can however use two pieces of Aluminium in the mouth of the vice. Since Aluminium is soft it will not damage the threads. Then you should be able to do the repair and put things together again. I bought a new end nut from Yanmar. You should put Locktite on the new nut (I used normal type so I can open it again if needed). The nut should be fastened with 150 Nm. Finally caulk the end nut (the inner ring mentioned earlier) with a flat driver to lock it into the shaft. Remember to put gear oil on the assembly before trying to put it back into the sail drive. Hope this helps.. Good luck. Regards Kristoffer. ------------- Kristoffer Hanse 370e #412 |
Posted By: Heikki
Date Posted: 24 July 2016 at 15:24
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Hi Kristoffer, Thanks for the detailled instructions! I will try to do the job in early september. Will let you know how I succeeded. Regards, Heikki |
Posted By: van diemen
Date Posted: 29 August 2016 at 02:39
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What did you do with your old SD50? Would you be willing to sell parts? ------------- patrik |
Posted By: Emmens
Date Posted: 29 August 2016 at 19:58
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Hallo all, I had my cone (H400 2007) replaced after appr. 500 hrs and was approaching a new overhaul. For insurance purposes I also need to change the saildrive seal in the not to far away future. The decision to change to the SD60 became obvious after extra guidance from Yanmar as how to handle the SD50. For instance: 1. shifting gear with prudence in order to reduce slipping  (Better not to shift at all)2. while motorsailing constant awareness that the sail is not giving more pressure than the motor, especially at the moments of setting sail. (Why on earth should you set sail with a sailboat)3. not having the gear engaged during sailing.  The first two are imho basic needs that a saildrive should be able to cope with. As I am planning for some longer trips in the near future I decided to invest. Supported with a discount of 10 % by Yanmar and some refund for the old saildrive by the dealer. The job has been done by a yacht service company and Yanmar dealer familiar with Hanse yachts. Besides better responses while shifting it also resulted in much less noise end less vibration.   Grtz. Wilko ------------- Mona Lisa, Hanse 400, #367, www.haarlemschejachtclub.nl |
Posted By: Heikki
Date Posted: 22 September 2016 at 17:20
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Many thanks to everybody for really good instructions! I lapped the clucth cones about a week ago and the clutch seems to work now perfectly. I started the work at 9.30 in the morning and had the clutch disassembled by lunch time. Had a good lunch in an Italian restaurant (no wine, only San Pellegrino). In the afternoon I started lapping. It was somewhat difficult for me to determine when the surfaces were matt. To be on the safe side, I turned the cones about 20 times back and forth. By 5 o'clock the job was done. By my experience I can recommend to anybody capable of keeping simple tools in hands to do the lapping. Regards, Heikki |
Posted By: Kymo
Date Posted: 25 September 2016 at 13:44
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Hello all, Recently I have had the clutch cones lapped by a friend who happens to be a retired Yanmar dealer. He found no sign of wear and rear on the parts in the clutch. He did find that the vertical movement in the system was too large. Yanmar specs call for a "gap" of 0,05 to 0,55mm. Factor 10?! In mine the gap was even 0.60mm! As he said the whole system was rattling around. A new ring (shin washer?) was made to reduce the gap to 0,06mm. The system works perfectly now and according to my friend is better than new. Cheers, Wijnand.
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Posted By: alettaenmarcel
Date Posted: 01 October 2016 at 19:36
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I lapped the cones today It runs fine now , but I wonder for how long.... Next time I consider replacing the sail drive with a oldfasionned shaft and prop..... Gr Marcel ------------- Kids Dingys 72-79 ,Several Windsurfboards 79-86 OK dingy competitions 86-92 , Trotter Pandora Race 92-98, Friendship 28 Sport 98-05, Hanse 370 06-...... |
Posted By: Mbla
Date Posted: 24 August 2017 at 16:41
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Kymo, Interesting, but not sure if I got it right?
Is this vertical movement within the unit that is pulled out of the saildrive to service the clutch cone? So the movement can be checked prior to loosening the end nut? |
Posted By: Kymo
Date Posted: 13 October 2017 at 15:07
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4EwhbRHvvE
Mbla, Sorry it has taken so long to reply. I did not seen your question. Above is a link to a rather long movie about lapping the SD50 cone. From minute 13 to 16 the guy explains the shin washer. Good luck.
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Posted By: blackswan
Date Posted: 27 January 2019 at 08:31
| Hi we have tried that, but to get the separation between the motor and the gearbox, one of them has to move. The instructions dont say how to get that separation so you can back off the pinion gear assembly? |
Posted By: toholthe
Date Posted: 27 January 2019 at 13:58
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There is an upgrade kit available. This solves the problem permanently. I will use this when my clutch starts to slip. http://www.multihulls4us.com/forums/showthread.php?7132-Yanmar-SD40-amp-SD50-Cone-Clutch-Upgrade-Kit" rel="nofollow - http://www.multihulls4us.com/forums/showthread.php?7132-Yanmar-SD40-amp-SD50-Cone-Clutch-Upgrade-Kit The guy who sells it sends you a full description and everything you need. Seems like a better solution than to change the whole saildrive. The Kit consist of; New larger diameter Top Nut New larger diameter Lower Collar 2x Thrust Bearings 3x O Rings Cone lapping Paste Loktite Go-no-Go setting up Gauges Setting up Clamp assembly Selector Set Screw and Lock Nut Vent Fitting, Tubing and End Filter Selector Cotter (Split) Pin Instructions on CD covering; Removal, Rework, Cone Lapping, Setting Up, Installation, Adjustment and Oil Level/spec etc. There is also a SPLINE HOLDING TOOL available that makes the Top Nut removal/fitment a LOT easier. |
Posted By: toholthe
Date Posted: 23 September 2019 at 22:47
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Now I have finished the upgrade of the cone clutch using the upgrade kit mentioned above. Everything seems to be working fine. Totally the job took me ca 15hr. I had help from a mechanical workshop to make a recess in the top lid. The rest I did myself which normal tools and the instructions I got with the upgrade kit. You can contact Gideon at mailto:saildrives@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow - saildrives@yahoo.com He is very helpful and willing to answer questions. Total cost for the upgrade was $580 for the upgrade kit and $40 for machining + new gearoil. Hopefully I do not need to think of the cone clutch again. Time will show. |
Posted By: StavrosNZ
Date Posted: 23 September 2019 at 23:02
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Congratulations, assuming you have got your clearances correct, adjusted the throttle linkage as advised, vented your gear case and are using GL-4 not GL-5 oil you should not have to worry about your cone clutch again for many years to come. ------------- Stephen 2010 H400 #691, Auckland, New Zealand |
Posted By: toholthe
Date Posted: 24 September 2019 at 08:46
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Thaks StavrosNZ. With the kit you get a go/no go gauge. You have to sand down
the top nut to the right tolerance is achieved. This is done by hand. It is a time-consuming
part of the upgrade, but not really difficult. I believe i got it right in the
end as the "green" gauge barely fitted after applying correct momentum on top nut. |
Posted By: Ratbasher
Date Posted: 24 September 2019 at 18:56
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Stephen, Toholthe - many thanks for one of the most useful series of posts on this forum; I'll get mine done before the next lapping is due but am fitting the vent sooner. The SD50 manual recommends replacing the entire clutch at 2000 hrs; I'm wondering if this upgrade obviates that, however? ------------- H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard' Gosport, UK |
Posted By: toholthe
Date Posted: 24 September 2019 at 20:58
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Hi, That is hard to say. If there is a lot of wear on the cone then only this part can be replaced I guess. There is a part on this in the instructions. My engine has 1400hr, but I had not significant wear. There is probably a lot of other “cover my a..” in the manual for the saildrive and engine you will never follow.
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Posted By: gjspwr
Date Posted: 29 December 2019 at 00:43
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i just had my cone clutch replaced. I does not pay to relap. Mechanic did it in the water and I’d not have to remove motor. Cost $2,000. ------------- GJS Hanse 400 Exhale |