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mopoulter
Captain Joined: 19 March 2009 Location: London, Canada Status: Offline Points: 320 |
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Not sure I understand how tape on mast would help. But maybe I misunderstand if so please forgive my account that follows. TAFN Mike P
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mp
Hanse 370 #416 "Anxiolytic" |
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Rubato
Admiral Joined: 12 July 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1791 |
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I'll see if mine is still there BUT it might be different on a 400. Would be best if someone could measure a 370. Steve
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Steve
Hanse 400e, #168 |
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Konstantin
Captain Joined: 24 August 2014 Status: Offline Points: 223 |
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There is a document on Selden web site - Selden Hints and Advice. It contains very comprehensive instructions for rig tuning and tensioning. I used these instructions to tension our rig on 445, using their "folding rule method" and it was like a completely different boat. I can now point higher, the mast is very stable on the waves, and in general the rig produces solid feeling.
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silversailor
Admiral Joined: 25 May 2005 Location: South Haven, MI Status: Offline Points: 1021 |
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Just read it and will follow it's directions and see if that improves my tacking angle. However, it doesn't answer my questions about forestay tension. The North tuning guide for the 370 shows a method for measuring the right length of the forestay. It requires that you extend the jib halyard to a black band (probably tape) on the mast. My mast is missing that mark. If anyone with a 370 can check their mast and locate a similar black band, please measure it's distance from the deck or some other fixed point for me. Thanks all.
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Silversailor
South Haven, MI USA S/V Legacy 2010 Andrews 28 |
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Rubato
Admiral Joined: 12 July 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1791 |
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Was on the boat this weekend and looked at the black band but didn't take a pic at the time, sorry. The band, on the 400 is in line with the top of the gooseneck that holds the boom on the mast. I believe the black bands are to denote the standard size of the mainsail and there are three of them - one lower down on the mast marking the mainsail tack (this location should be standard on all boats), one near the end of the boom marking the length of the foot, and the other near the top of the mast marking the top of the head. So, for the purposes of the forestay length measurement, mark the front of the mast level with the top edge of the boom and that should be very close.
hope that helps Steve
Edited by Rubato - 11 September 2018 at 18:49 |
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Steve
Hanse 400e, #168 |
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Sailingjack
Commander Joined: 30 March 2011 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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Steve, I have been struggling to get her point higher and just measured the forestay. It's shorter than in North sails doc. How did you extend your forestay? |
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Hanse 400#803 s/y Saara
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Rubato
Admiral Joined: 12 July 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1791 |
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I found a turnbuckle at the base of the forestay that was hidden by the furling mechanism. I was able to undue a few screws and such on the furler, raise it up on the forestay to expose the turnbuckle
Steve
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Steve
Hanse 400e, #168 |
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samuel
Admiral of the Fleet Joined: 26 December 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2683 |
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Without reading the thread all over again I do not think that anyone has mentioned the relationship between backstay tension, lowers & forstay tension. I only have a humble 311 so it may not apply so much to larger boats , if so apologies & i will go away !!! but here are my theories. A lot depends on mainsail shape & fullness. I discussed this with my sail maker & advised him that I achieved about 150mm bend with reasonable backstay tension. ( since then I have fitted a 32:1 backstay set up. I set my uppers to 24/25% using a guage. If I have slack lowers & I tighten the backstay the mast bends. If I have tighter lowers & apply backstay the mast bends less & i apply the weight to the forestay. Of course these variations are very small but they are there and can be seen. So when one talks on the forum about tension on the lowers& mids, first one has to stop pumping so that means setting up with a slight pre bend. Then one has to look at the relationship between mids & lowers. My lowers are thicker than the mids so the tension is less than the mids as the wire is thicker.( do not know about larger yachts) Then one has to look at the cut of the mainsail. A fuller main will need to be flattened more upwind if one wants to put off reefing so use of the cunningham & backstay with slacker mids will allow this. However, this will not tighten the forstay so much. So does one reef earlier? As for forstay tension & jib shape it used to be recognised ( do not know about current feeling is I do not race anymore) that whilst having the flow slightly further forward might be faster it is harder for the average helm to steer the boat. So a more helm friendly sail had the flow a little further aft. So when the sail is cut it may be cut for a slack forstay with the flow aft a bit & tightening the forstay may not be necessary. However, with an older dacron sail the flow may be moving aft & one wants to drag it forward with halyard tension etc & want tighter mids & lowers to tighten the forstay. So whilst owners talk about tension & disagree , it may be that the cut of the sails is the deciding factor in the final analysis. Tighter mids & lowers for more forstay tension, Slacker to flatten the mainsail Finally, I am on my 5Th forstay in 15 years (I keep experimenting) & have now actually moved my mast tip forward by 300mm ( checked on CAD) to what it was when I bought the boat, to ease the pressure on the helm. My mast (when sighted up with a building) is more upright than similar Hanse yachts so I have gone against the general feeling here as well. It may be that things have moved on since I raced in the 80's & I am talking rubbish but I am sure that others will tell me !!!!!!! PS to other 311 owners- do not ask me what my mix is , that is my secret
Edited by samuel - 13 September 2018 at 07:41 |
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Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Sailingjack
Commander Joined: 30 March 2011 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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Thank you Steve for the info. I have earlier found the trimming measures for the 400 from a North Sails New Zealand internet site, but the link no longer exists. Luckily I have a paper copy. The actual J-measure (435cm) is smaller than in the document (458cm). The measure from mark on forestay to deck is also quite a bit smaller (206cm vs. 236cm). I don't know, what year models the North Sails doc was covering, but obviously my 2011-model is not compatible. My boat has a Selden under deck furler TD400 and a Sparcraft rig. Looks like rigging measures vary on all(?) Hanse models depending on year model and rigging manufacturer, so one has to be careful when trimming... Now I need to find the right trim settings for my boat. Any input would be appreciated. |
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Hanse 400#803 s/y Saara
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DJgun
Commander Joined: 04 April 2020 Location: SydneyAustralia Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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This thread has been quiet for a few years.
Now it seems impossible to find the North Sails tuning/setup guide for Hanse 400. Does anyone on this forum have a copy of the North Sails guide? I believe most 400s with 19x1 wire use Dia.10 uppers and lowers, and Dia.8 intermediate shrouds. My 400e with Sparcraft rig has new standing rigging, with Dyform shrouds. They are Dia.9 uppers, Dia.7 intermediate, and Dia.10 lowers. The problem is that % if yield from other sizes does not apply. I need to correlate the actual tensions being used. For instance Dia.9 Dyform has similar cross section of wire to Dia.10 wire 19x1. I am using Loos PT-3M for checking rig tensions, but unfortunately dyform10mm tensions are different to10mm 19x1 tensions. A very competitive 400e 2009 model I race with has Selden rig and 19x1 wire shrouds with Loos readings 50 upper, 10 Intermediate, 32 Lowers. These are not directly compable either, because 1. The mast has different bending properties, and 2. The shroud base (chain plate) is in a different location on the deck compared to my 2007 built 400e. But I have sailed his boat and it is definitely quicker. Because it uses different keel, different sails it cannot be attributed just to rig tension. I give that information for general assistance to other owners. DJ Edited by DJgun - 21 June 2021 at 01:49 |
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DJ Sailor Ordinaire
HIN DE-HANJ0331J708 |
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