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Rudder problems on Atlantic Crossing - DOVE II

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Sky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2017 at 13:19
I'm soon to be the owner of a Hanse 531 and I've been reading about the unfortunate events of the Dove II, when they lost the ability to manouver their yach after rudder failure. It was horrifying reading and it was good read that noone got hurt. I really hope they will recover their yacht, and that it will be in a repairable condition.
 
I was wondering if anyone knows when Hanse changed supplier of rudders from the Polish manufacturer to Jefa? It would be good to know if my new yacht has the upgraded Jefa rudder or not. Is there anyway to see the difference, if you are not really sure?
 
Many thanks! / Sky
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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2017 at 13:31
Jefa rudders are generally properly filled with foam. If you have any water in the top few inches of the blade, then there is a void. One can see that there was a void in mine. I drilled a 10mm hole 150mm down & water ran out as the top was full of water. You could try that & whilst it would not give  a definitive answer it would give some indication of trouble to come if you find a void. The hole is dead easy to fill afterwards


Edited by samuel - 20 February 2017 at 13:32
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2017 at 13:41
Thanks Samuel. I will check before launching this spring.
 
You propose to drill close to the top of the blade.....Wouldn't it be more logical that any water would end up at the very bottom of the blade, should there be a void?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2017 at 16:12
From memory - having read numerous rudder threads on this forum- quite a few of the older boats have had issues with rudders of some sort or another. Some to do with size, some with shape when having shallow keel instead of deep fin  & some having water in the blade.
Quite a few owners have reported that the seam at the top has opened up & several have tried different methods of sealing this. Those that have reported this have generally found the foam to be wetter in the top as it takes a long time for it to filter down the blade. That being said , I believe one owner ( May have been Gregor, but I cannot remember) cut a large hole in the side half way down, to let the foam dry out & re glassed the hole up.
A couple of owners found the void to be in the top, not the bottom & it makes sense to just check to see if there is an open seam along the top edge & to just drill a line of 10mm holes at the most down from the top for a short distance & if there is a void & to check how big it is.

It is not only that there is a small void that is the problem but the question of expanding freezing salt water in the winter in cold climates. Additionally if the structural section is only bonded to one face of the rudder ( as in my case) then there is a real chance that the other face is only bonded by some suspect foam & the edge lip. In my case the edge lip gave way & the foam was next to useless as a structural element. I think it failed because of longitudinal bending, as I mentioned earlier

But before one starts to panic one has to remember that I only have a 2003 version of the small 311 series & owners of newer, bigger boats may have a totally different design.
That being said, Dove has lost her rudder & she is at the other end of the size scale!!!!



Edited by samuel - 20 February 2017 at 16:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JesperB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2017 at 21:25
Basically all older boats has issues with water in the rudder. Even a Jefa rudder will have it unless you re-seal the joint between the rudder shaft and the blade on a regular basis.
I rebuilt the rudder (not Jefa) on my old Hanse 371 (built in 2004) in the winter 2013/2014 after I had found blisters on big parts of the blade. The blisters was a result of water inside (comming from the joint between shaft and blade) and the fact that the balade was coated with epoxy (that is 100% watertight - cracked when the water wanted to get out). I drilled several 100mm holes on one side (not the side where the aluminium skeleton is laminated) and let it dry for 2 months (in my garage). I then replaced the laminate (after tapering down the old laminate arond the holes + adding some new 2k foam) with Epoxy and glass. I was also adding several layers of 300g glass on both leading and trailing edge, faired it with filler, sanding etc. To get rid of the leaking problem I milled a groove in the GRP around the shaft, primed it with epoxy (as with rest of the blade) and sealed it with sika.
On my current boat, a Hanse 400e from 2006 (also with non Jefa rudder) I had issues with the boat going to starboard (independent of wind from starboard or port). After checking the profile I realized that the profile was unsymetric - 10mm difference between the sides. I made some templates from the good side and faired the other side - approx 3 kg of glassfiber filler - and then finaly coated it with epoxy after milling the same groove (as on my Hanse 371 ) that was sealed with sika. Problem solved.
 
Conclusion: If you have the non Jefa - by a Jefa blade or be prepared to spend a full week or two fixing the old one.
Jesper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2017 at 21:45
Just out of interest
How long did the Sika last? As we all know it does break down after a while & presumably you had to replace it. Or did you sell the boat before the problem arose again.
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham342 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2017 at 21:56
 

Edited by Graham342 - 08 August 2020 at 17:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JesperB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2017 at 06:35
I only had it for one year after the repair. It's one year since I fixed the blade on my 400. So, I cn not give any guidance on life time. I'm planning to redo it every 5-years. I recall reading on Jefas homepage that they recomend regular replacement but I dont remember how often.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2017 at 07:25
Thanks for all the comments. It seems there are a lot of problems with the rudders. The yacht I'm buying is a 531 model year 2006, I believe it was delivered in Nov 2005. So I guess it was not fitted with a Jefa rudder then.  I will have a thorough look at the rudder and drill some holes to check for void, and possibly water.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gertha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2017 at 08:24
A few facts, as I understand and remember them.
My 370 Hanse is 2006 and has a Jefa rudder.
Hanse were buying Jefa at this point in time

The Hanse Business was built and expanded rapidly in the second half of the 2000-2010 decade.
Materials were sourced and priced on a yearly contract, so in a fixed 12 month period sub -contract companies were contracted to supply a fixed number of components.
When production was exceeding supply any number of components were brought in at best price and delivery time, so no 2 boats were getting the same materials.

None of this means a boat will be good or bad; but it is does mean you cannot compare components on 2 boats from the same age.

I believe that now the Hanse business is not so driven on sales and profit , and quality control is improved.

There is no substitute for good maintenance, on a boat of any age everything from top to bottom needs checking on a regular basis.
On a rudder a quick "tap" down the sides will show the sound, if it rings or has a sharpe sound if probably has no water, if it is a flat or dull sound there is probably water.
If you do not know the boats history and it has water, then drop the rudder and cut it open, it is not a big cost.

Simon
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