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Rudder problems on Atlantic Crossing - DOVE II

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Lippe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lippe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2017 at 13:57

For the info to all H400 owners. I got the following reply from Jefa to my email inquiry concerning my Hanse 400 from 2008. "We started to deliver rudders to Hanse 400 in 2010-2011. So this is not a Jefa rudder.

You can find more information about the replacement rudder for Hanse 400 on our FTP-server, direct link here: ftp://ftp.jefa.com/old_boat_spare_parts/Hanse/Hanse_400/ "

 
My rudder is still ok and obviously does not have lot of water as it freezes each winter and would probably be having some cracks if too much water inside.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2017 at 14:15
I just got a reply from Jefa regarding rudders for the 531
 

"We have never produced the original rudders for the Hanse 531 boat. We were not delivering to Hanse Yacht at that time.

 

We do have a replacement rudder for Hanse 531 (find attached a rudder drawing). Note that the diameter of our replacement rudder is °126mm, and the diameter of the original rudder is °142mm.  

When you wish to replace it, you would need an ALU sleeve as well (SLE142AL), to reuse the existing bearings in the boat."
 
So now I know there is no Jefa rudder on my yacht.
 
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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2017 at 15:16
The cross sectional area of a 142 diam stock is 27% more than one of 126 diam ( calculated as extra over 126)
That is a very big difference so the strength of the material used by JEFA would have to be significantly greater. Of course it could be stainless steel against aluminium but it does need to be explained if one was changing. Plus the rudder shape will have an effect- but not 27%
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitbaltic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2017 at 18:50
Originally posted by samuel samuel wrote:

The cross sectional area of a 142 diam stock is 27% more than one of 126 diam ( calculated as extra over 126)
That is a very big difference so the strength of the material used by JEFA would have to be significantly greater. Of course it could be stainless steel against aluminium but it does need to be explained if one was changing. Plus the rudder shape will have an effect- but not 27%


Good point. Tongue in cheek but, given their respective track record on rudders, I'd be more inclined to trust Jefa saying it's OK than to believe Hanse if they were to say it isn't....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2017 at 20:56
Originally posted by Bitbaltic Bitbaltic wrote:

Originally posted by samuel samuel wrote:

The cross sectional area of a 142 diam stock is 27% more than one of 126 diam ( calculated as extra over 126)
That is a very big difference so the strength of the material used by JEFA would have to be significantly greater. Of course it could be stainless steel against aluminium but it does need to be explained if one was changing. Plus the rudder shape will have an effect- but not 27%


Good point. Tongue in cheek but, given their respective track record on rudders, I'd be more inclined to trust Jefa saying it's OK than to believe Hanse if they were to say it isn't....


I would not argue with that !!!
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2017 at 06:24

I asked Jefa about the smaller diameter on the rudderstock, ant the material. This was the response.

 
"All our replacement rudders are CE calculated, and the maximum diameter that is allowed on our RUD55 is °126mm. The material is ALU6082. "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Amiral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2017 at 17:13
Unbelievable!
We lost also our Hanse 505 just two days before, in the same area (800 NW from Barbados).
reason was a problem of rudder. Crew was safe. It was the system to cramp the axis of the blade with the quadrant (sector) with 4 socket  head-cap screws which has been torn out.
Just NOT SOLID ENOUGH!
Note that it happened twice on this boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H8jer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2017 at 17:49
Instead of ALU - it's possible to get a Jefa rudder shaft in Stainless Steel

/H8jer


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Wild View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wild Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2017 at 20:06
Originally posted by Amiral Amiral wrote:

Unbelievable!
We lost also our Hanse 505 just two days before, in the same area (800 NW from Barbados).
reason was a problem of rudder. Crew was safe. It was the system to cramp the axis of the blade with the quadrant (sector) with 4á<span ="b2" style="color: rgb36, 36, 36; : rgb255, 254, 239; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">socket áhead-cap screws which has been torn out.</span>
<span ="b2" style="color: rgb36, 36, 36; : rgb255, 254, 239; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Just NOT SOLID ENOUGH!</span>
<span ="b2" style="color: rgb36, 36, 36; : rgb255, 254, 239; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Note that it happened twice on this boat.</span>


I dont believe this is a case of "NOT STRONG ENOUGH" IMO this is bad work of the people who have did the placement of the rudder and quadrant.
The Jefa shaft dia 126mm is strong enough, in case of a Touchdown or hitting something under water the GRP rudder will crack and if the shaft cracks there will be a lot of damage on your boat. Believe me I have experience.
In 2012 we where on anchor with our 545 2010 with strong gusts of Side wind ,the anchor breaks out and we get stockt with the rudder between rocks. The only solution to avoid more damage was full power of the engine and to keep the rudder blockt. We get out but we lost the undersection of the Jefa RUD 55 ( I will try to place some pict) no damage of the shaft our the bearings.
This year we where in Kos Greece in a small harbour Kadamena( Deep 2,60 our draft is 2,43 the rudder 2,35) with mooringlines to the shore when the eartquake and the small tsunami take place. The water water rising and comming down 0,8 to 0,90 meter in less than 2 min. Several times.We touch several times the ground, again we cracks the rudder (this time a handmade very strong rudder on the original Jefa shaft) no damage on the shaft our the bearings of Jefa.
So I believe the Jefa Shaft is strong enough and they did no changes on there ruddershafts since 2010 so far I know.


Edited by Wild - 19 August 2017 at 20:11
Wild and Wet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wild Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2017 at 16:10
Wild and Wet
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