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Rubato
Admiral
Joined: 12 July 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1806 |
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Posted: 15 December 2008 at 20:12 |
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Same thing here in Vancouver - shore power connected when at berth. In winter, it runs the dehumidifier and/or heater. All year round, it keeps the batteries topped up. These types of batteries last a lot longer if you keep them at float charge when not in use....
Netzerab, I followed your explanation, most of us are well aware of the basics of electrolysis. However, at the end, where you mention that "A third alternative is to enable a local earth plane on board" I didn't understand the logic. Isn't this just moving the problem? It's an attempt to make another piece of metal the target of connecting the circuit, the same thing we try to do with the zincs. The same challenges exist, how to make that "other piece of metal" the target instead of the vital metal pieces of the boat.
Steve
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colincooper
Rear Admiral
Joined: 23 October 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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Posted: 15 December 2008 at 20:27 |
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Well if you run small heaters and dehumidifiers then power is needed. A galvanic isolator will def. help. - but .... Both are mains presumambly - and so don't need to touch the 12V circuits. You could run them and not endanger saildrives etc.
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Colin (owner of Hilde - a 370)
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371-#235
Captain
Joined: 14 February 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 272 |
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Posted: 16 December 2008 at 20:35 |
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I leave my shorepower plugged in all season as well. Cold beer in the fridge and my Mastervolt battery charger looks after my batteries very well.
To prevent galvanic corrosion problems I installed a marine isolation transformer (http://www.charlesindustries.com/main/ma_iso_bost.html) from Charles industries.
Now my shorepower is completely isolated by means of a transformer whose windings transfer shorepower to the boat magnetically without any shorepower wires actually touching my boats's wires. It is far superior to a galvanic islolater.
Bob, 371-#235
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Bob
371-#235 "Blondie" |
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bovine
Commadore
Joined: 18 November 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 405 |
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Posted: 16 December 2008 at 21:07 |
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hi
why not run a lead from shore power to inside of your yacht and plug your heaters or dehumidifier that way your boat is isolated.
david
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bjoris
Captain
Joined: 11 August 2007 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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Posted: 16 December 2008 at 21:30 |
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Well, there are quite a lot of people that means that zinkSavers is not doing all the work. There are only two perfect solutions. Complet galvanic Isolator or disconect your shorepower. I do it like bovine, but it might be dangours since you then do not have earth in your boat...
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H350#118
www.bjoris.blogspot.com |
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Stephen
Lieutenant
Joined: 23 November 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 42 |
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Posted: 16 December 2008 at 21:42 |
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Its accepted practice to leave the shorepower connected for heaters and battery charging etc. Its what's the best solution to minimise the risk of galvanic corrosion in doing just that.
Probably wise to fit some sort of isolator. Bob's idea is probably the best input Ive read so far on this discussion.
If my Galvanic isolator fails then its next on the list.
Stephen.
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Stephen Kerr
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alettaenmarcel
Admiral
Joined: 15 August 2006 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1246 |
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Posted: 16 December 2008 at 22:15 |
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Till now we always have shore power connected wenn we are not on board.
We did not make any electrical chanches to the electrical installation only added nav gear.
Til now no problems at all.
we leave the shore power connected because we dont switch off the fridge and there is always somting in it we have to keep cool (there is nothing better then wenn you arive on board and you can get a nice can off beer
Besides that there are hundreds off boats other than Hanse witch also have the shore power in and also have a volvo ore Yanmar saildrive.
I think we have to keep looking if thing stay alright but dont overdo it to yourself.
greetings Marcel
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Kids Dingys 72-79 ,Several Windsurfboards 79-86 OK dingy competitions 86-92 , Trotter Pandora Race 92-98, Friendship 28 Sport 98-05, Hanse 370 06-......
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Johan Hackman
Admiral of the Fleet
Joined: 24 August 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 4361 |
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Posted: 16 December 2008 at 22:38 |
I also need to keep heaters in the boat during the winter and the way I see it my boat is isolated as long as the water heater is not connected. I will have to find out whether the charger actually connects the shore power with the water. The good thing is that I have a switch so I can turn it off. Does anybody else have that? If I thought that it was not enough to pull the plug to the water heater I would definitely follow David's advice. My boat's home port is in fresh water and I haven't seen any abnormal wear on the anodes. Judging by that I think I won't have to worry. Johan |
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Andis
Commander
Joined: 26 March 2007 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 113 |
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Posted: 17 December 2008 at 12:34 |
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Johan
I don't think the water heater is the main source for possible problems. I've been talking to fellow sailors that have experienced real problems with these matters, and they don't even have one installed.
Beeing in fresh water should presumably reduce the problem however (not such a good lead).
I'll not for a second pretend to be an expert on these matters, but as far as I can understand, the only really safe and foolproof solution is to install a marine transformer as mentioned by Bob. Rather expensive and heavy though. I haven't (yet) installed one myself. But then I'm not permanently connected to shore power.
But of course, as long as everything is in perfect order with the electrical system on both our own, and the boats around us, everything should be all right?!?
Andreas
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S/Y Anne-Ma, Hanse 370 2007
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Brightside
Commadore
Joined: 07 October 2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Posted: 18 December 2008 at 22:32 |
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Health Warning: These thoughts are pub talk but I hope they will help.
2030 On the Volvo 2030D the gearbox and thus saildrive & prop is electrically isolated from the engine. So electrically connecting to the engine block does not electrically connect to the prop. A surveyor told me. Volvo bronze props from 2002 to 2004 are prone to de-zincification (turns pink) due to an incorrect balance of the metals used in the casting. Yachts from Swedish builders quietly had their props replaced by Volvo. Anode Erosion. I have found the 3 section anode ring to the Volvo prop dissolve faster than the anode screwed to the saildrive. After 2 months of ownership, alarmed at the rate that the 3 section anode dissolved (later found to be gone in 6 months) I fitted a third hull mounted anode close to the saildrive and electrically connected to the top of the gearbox. WRT to AC leakage to earth current Voltage can get on to the equipment's casing thus earth protection wire by either a short circuit (high voltage and high current) or by insulation breakdown or leakage by tracking across a wet surface (low voltage and low current). In the case of a short circuit the earth wire takes the heavy current, protecting the human by keeping the casing at earth potential (near zero volts) and the fuse on the live or the Earth Leakage Detector (aka RCD) trips thus cutting of the AC power. It is the low voltage low current scenario that causes electrolytic erosion. Zinc Savers are two heavy current diodes connected in parallel and facing in opposite directions. A positive or negative voltage of greater than 0.7v on the earth wire causes each diode to conduct in turn. Thus the current due to a voltage of 0.7v or greater (50v is considered a hazard) on the earth line is passed through the diode to the to the substation earth via the earth wire and the fuse or earth protection device trips removing the power. When a voltage on the earth wire boatside of the diodes is less than 0.7v the diodes do not conduct, thus stopping the path to earth the substation earth and reducing the chance of a circuit being made to create galvanic corrosion. Cathodes not Anodes. In conventional electrics the current is said to flow from positive to negative. However in electronics, the true physics/chemistry is used ie. Electrons flowing from the negative (Cathode) to the positive (Anode) is used. The zinc that sacrifices itself is technically a Cathode not an anode, in M.G. McDuff's literature (UK supplier) you will see that they refer to Cathodic Protection Regards Mike Re-worded description of diodes connection 20/12/08 Edited by Brightside - 20 December 2008 at 11:15 |
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