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Simrad IS20 |
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Aguamenti
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Joined: 23 November 2007 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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Posted: 23 December 2007 at 13:18 |
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Does the IS20 Graphic calculate the TWS and TWA based Nmea data sent to it or is it just a repeater for wind data sent to it? |
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Oyvind
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Joined: 12 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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Posted: 23 December 2007 at 20:16 |
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Aquamenti
IS20 Graphic has a socalled Advanced Wind Filter where the true wind calculations are used to improve filtering of the apparent wind data. The input to the AWF is the compass heading, the masthead apparent wind measurements (speed, wind angle), Speed Through Water/Speed Over Ground. So i guess the answer to your question is yes++. Øyvind |
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Oyvind
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Joined: 12 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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Posted: 23 December 2007 at 21:56 |
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Regarding the discussion about using Speed Through Water, Speed Over Ground, Compass heading or Course Over Ground:
In IS20 the Speed Through Water and compass heading is regarded as one speed vector measurement. Speed Over Ground and Course Over Ground, measured by the GPS, is considered another speed vector measurement. The difference between these two vector measurements is the Set and Drift vector. The paddlewheel and compass must be aligned to get a correct measurement of the speed vector. The masthead wind sensor and the paddlewheel must be aligned to get a correct true wind angle/speed calculation. The compass must be aligned with the masthead wind sensor to get the correct wind direction calculations. Course Over Ground and Speed Over Ground is never guaranteed to be aligned with the masthead wind sensor and therefore will not give a correct true wind calculation, but it's a fairly good number two measurement. The problem with measuring the apparent wind is the inertial forces acting on the wind sensor on top of the mast. If the wind sensor is not well balanced, then you will get incorrect measurements when the boat is heeling, and you will also get a noisy measurement. IS20 uses the compass measurements to filter the apparent wind measurements without loosing the dynamics in the measurement. To check this you can see, when you are tacking, that the apparent wind angle is passing 0deg measurement in the same moment as the fore sail is shifting side. To check the quality of the true wind calculations (how well the sensors are aligned, compass calibration and the balance of the wind sensor), you can look at the difference in wind direction measurement on port and starboard tack. Øyvind |
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Oyvind
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Joined: 12 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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Posted: 23 December 2007 at 22:02 |
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Boudewijn
The SW version number in production is 1.1.01 Øyvind |
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Aguamenti
Lieutenant
Joined: 23 November 2007 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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Posted: 23 December 2007 at 22:29 |
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Are there any way of checking your SW version in the instrument? I understand you can connect the instruments to a PC for upgrades’ but only dealers have the equipment, software and cable, other vendors lets the customers do this with a SD card or over a data link and it actually works i know. PC connection is a great thing to have also for navigation in the cabin. |
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Lars
370#469 |
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Johan Hackman
Admiral of the Fleet
Joined: 24 August 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 4361 |
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Posted: 23 December 2007 at 23:50 |
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I find this thread very entertaining, just like Steve does, and I would like to thank Oyvind first and formost for replying to our concerns.
I suddenly lack a definition for True Wind, what is it really? Is it the air moving across land that doesn't move, or is it air moving across water that does move, or is it air moving across a boat sailing a straight course but with a leeway? As long as I know the answer to the question above I am fine with it, but if I don't know I will be uncertain. I am confident, however, that True Wind calculated from Boat Speed measured from a paddlewheel and True wind calculated from Speed information provided from a GPS are two different things. Oyvind has been kind enough to point that out already by referring to them as two different vectors. For the sake of argument, I would like to add something. Accuracy is not the same thing as similarity. If you get a figure that is close to what you expect it might not be accuracy, but similarity. An accurate figure can be further from the figure you expect, and that figure can be beyond correct, but that doesn't mean that the similar figure is more accurate. As for birds playing with accuracy, I don't know which arrow to trust in the photo below. Johan
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colincooper
Rear Admiral
Joined: 23 October 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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Posted: 24 December 2007 at 11:10 |
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Thanks for the bird picture. Mine was a wren or something like that. It wasn't immediately apparent (no pum intended) why the wind was rotating around the boat.
Also interesting to hear of the averaging between the different sensors that the Simrad gear does. Presumably that is where a giro stabilised compass comes in to give a relatively stable reference point. As a question - does it use the other sonsors to help average the GPS and speed output? The compass could presumably stabilise the heading vector from the GPS in just the same way?
I think in this discussion one needs to think what one is going to do with the data. There are several things you can measure to more or less degree of accuracy. My perspective is one of a cruising sailor which is am am sure very different from, for example, a racer.
The usual reason I want the true wind is to decide what tacks I need to put in to clear a headland or island. As a result I'm using the chart plotter and wind direction together. The fact that the paddle wheel is almost always stuck (and I'm very cowardly about cleaning it at sea) leads me to using GPS. It may not be perfect but it is very convenient and gives me what I want. I've often been frustrated by the Simrad IS12 not helping me with that when it could (as the IS20 now does). No matter, I go below and get the data from the chartplotter.
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Colin (owner of Hilde - a 370)
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colincooper
Rear Admiral
Joined: 23 October 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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Posted: 24 December 2007 at 23:42 |
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Merry christmas everyone. May we all find our true wind in the new year
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Colin (owner of Hilde - a 370)
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Aguamenti
Lieutenant
Joined: 23 November 2007 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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Posted: 26 June 2008 at 21:38 |
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I have now connected the Garmin GPSMAP4008 using the NMEA2K and connecting it to the Simnet bus and to my surprise it worked immediately. I got all the wind data to the plotter and also waterspeed and depth. The IS20 multifunction instrument displays the plotter COG and so on. I made my one cable to connect the Garmin to the Simnet just by following the cables colours and using one part of a Simnet Cable and the other part of a Garmin cable to get the correct connectors. Picture from Midsummer in ![]() |
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Lars
370#469 |
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alettaenmarcel
Admiral
Joined: 15 August 2006 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1246 |
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Posted: 26 June 2008 at 22:14 |
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Its waterresistent anyway I believe?????
greetings Marcel
Hop you got better wetter this year!
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Kids Dingys 72-79 ,Several Windsurfboards 79-86 OK dingy competitions 86-92 , Trotter Pandora Race 92-98, Friendship 28 Sport 98-05, Hanse 370 06-......
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