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Top Spreaders

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Antsy View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 April 2019
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Antsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 02:29
This is a 2 year old boat and I do not believe that the break came from transporting as it would not have been assembled.  What is evident that I can see on the port one is the fit of the Stem ball support is very tight and the wedge effect with forward load would be magnified.  It is a very long spreader and we did get in a 40knot plus gust on port tack with full main up during a race and broke our carbon spinnaker pole while goose-winging and trying to release the sheets which were caught in the parrot beak.   On the port spreader photo you can see the aluminium stress at the point of break.  Perhaps it is enough to break it, perhaps not.  Once broken, then a halyard could then get caught behind the inner edge.  As I am an engineer I have access to FEA and solid modelling so I will have a bit of a play with leverage.  I would guess at the spreader length being about 1100-1200 long and the pin/pivot point to the fracture is only about 50 mm so that is a force multiplier of about 24 times. 
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P&J View Drop Down
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Joined: 07 February 2019
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote P&J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 03:57
Thank you for the photos.
I will check my spreaders in April 2021 when hopefully I can get back to our 418.
Best regards
Peter
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Matt1 View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 March 2019
Location: Hamble, UK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 07:35
Wow! Thanks for sending the pictures, although I'm not quite seeing it in the port spreader, but take your word for it.
I'm no expert but to me that looks like some kind of collision / impact damage - especially to have flexed the torn part so much. My money would be on the crane during the original stepping of the mast or maybe another yachts mast if you have ever had someone rafted alongside you? (potentially that could have happened without you even being onboard at the time). It does look like you have had a lucky escape! Good luck getting it resolved.
Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK

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Matt1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 07:37
Originally posted by Tranquillity Tranquillity wrote:

Matt, Sailed past EmBer weekend before lockdown and she was very well put to bed for winter rather than my mad rush to get sails off day before we are allowed out again in a month!!
 
Thanks Jon! You probably thought I had been burgled! …..it's a bit OCD even for me to take the wheels off....but I won't be using the boat until the spring and sadly there has been a lot of theft and vandalism on the river lately :(
Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK

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Antsy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 20:32
Matt1,
There has been no collision, no rafting up, it stays in a marina.  It could only have happened during sailing and there is a possibility of fracturing first and then subsequent movement.  Without a metallurgist examining it I am not able to conclude a single episode break or from fatigue.  The point is that if the clearance around the lower Stay hole reinforcing were larger then any forward force on the outer point of the spreader would have resulted in compression where the inner point of the broken piece would stop against the mast pad creating a different force diagram rather than wedging at the broken point causing tensile stress.  This could be a case of manufacturing tolerances causing an isolated incident.  The point of posting this on MyHanse is for me to find out if there are other incidents and to alert other owners of a possible area which should be checked at least annually.  As there is no complete break the strut is still in compression and the outer stay still supporting the mast.
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J&J View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 June 2014
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J&J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 21:58
Hi I had a similar failure earlier this year fortunately I saw that the section had bent back and thus spotted it before any rig failure . Good Chanse is 2014 launch and we use her a lot  , on the advice of the rigger I replaced both sides . The parts were easy to source from Seldon . I had noticed my lower stays were quite slack and in fact had been like that from new , the rigger has set the stays up quite a lot tighter now .
These rigs do have a tendency to pump ( flex forward in the centre of the mast ) when slamming into a sea and I put the fail down to motoring into such a seaway when coming back from The Bay of Islands this year . I now ensure that in similar conditions that I ensure I have plenty of backstay tension on and / or sail
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Matt1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2020 at 08:32
Originally posted by Antsy Antsy wrote:

Matt1,
There has been no collision, no rafting up, it stays in a marina.  It could only have happened during sailing and there is a possibility of fracturing first and then subsequent movement.  Without a metallurgist examining it I am not able to conclude a single episode break or from fatigue.  The point is that if the clearance around the lower Stay hole reinforcing were larger then any forward force on the outer point of the spreader would have resulted in compression where the inner point of the broken piece would stop against the mast pad creating a different force diagram rather than wedging at the broken point causing tensile stress.  This could be a case of manufacturing tolerances causing an isolated incident.  The point of posting this on MyHanse is for me to find out if there are other incidents and to alert other owners of a possible area which should be checked at least annually.  As there is no complete break the strut is still in compression and the outer stay still supporting the mast.
Thanks for sharing :-) you will definitely have me going aloft in the spring to check mine
Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK

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maggie.scheunert View Drop Down
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Joined: 21 January 2022
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maggie.scheunert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 January 2022 at 15:45
Hey there,

We recently acquired a 415, and upon going up the mast we found the exact same damage as in your picture. (Had to rub my eyes to make sure I wasn't seeing the same picture!)

Wondering if you ever found out what caused it, or had any trouble fixing it? By chance was it the upper port-side spreader? We are trying to get a replacement one, and hoping nothing goes wrong in the meantime.

Any tips would be super helpful!
Thanks
Maggie
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J&J View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J&J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2022 at 23:02
Hi we had the same failure 2 years ago on our 2014 415 . Our rigger sourced 2 new top spreader arms from Seldon . Our rig was set up quite loose and is now much tighter , the leeward lower shroud was quite loose before when sailing , this is no longer the case   . I believe the failure was this looseness this allows the mast to flex forward when you are pounding into the waves , the mast pumps forward and back and that is what cause the Aluminum to peel away. Its definitely something to watch for 
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Jenesis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jenesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2022 at 06:15
I have also found, through a professional rig check for race/insurance purposes, a broken spreader. Port side, upper. No known cause. The rig had a serious workout in a race with 45+ knots behind for 20 hours or so with three reefs but didn't show this break after the race. No collisions, no known ropes caught, etc. 
No stock in Australia, so had to wait for one to be imported.
2016 415 after the race.
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