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Victron 48 volt system with Safiery 48 volt Li-Ion

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Mark_J1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark_J1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2024 at 09:15
460AUS you made me curious. Short response is this stuff has been done before. It’s not really that unusual but needs presenting to dealer in a way they can engage and help you. Longer response below. 

I’ve just taken a look at the “Scotty AI” system you are trying to get incorporated into your build.  That’s a very neat product set, and I’ve dropped in a link below if anyone is interested. It mentions ‘canbus’ as it targets the automotive market - RVs as you say - though some newer direct injection boat engines could likely link up. However, like other alternator controllers such as Wakespeed it has alternative algorithms if required in the absence of canbus data. 

Re Hanse & their importer in Australia. I think you may need to translate the Scotty AI stuff to get them to engage. What you are proposing is not that unusual. In essence you want to run a 48v LiFePO4 battery bank alongside a high-power alternator. An alternator controller manages the alternator load by measuring load, temp, volts etc.  Not unusual except for the voltage. That controller works together with a high current (3Kw+) DC-DC buck boost converter to charge the batteries at 48v while alternator is supplying loads at 12v. Alternatively, if the alternator is not supplying power then the DC-DC Buck Boost converter provides 12v from the battery bank. Bi-directional DC-DC conversion is relatively unusual with step up/down in voltage so that will be new to them I suspect. I’ll bet you’ll get some further conversation around failure modes but I won’t dive into that now. 

In dealer speak you need to delete the standard batteries and supply your own. Likewise you may need to delete battery combiner elements from the order, which may impact on DC switch panels etc. Engine should arrive with a standard alternator which you either swap out for the high power one or fit the necessary extra mount & belts solution to have 2 alternators (if you are going to these kind of costs that makes some sense. You might even want to run one at 12v and the other at 24v).  

Running loads at a different voltage to the batteries is what’s confusing I guess but this is not new. The idea has a great heritage in fact!  Look up boat maintenance guru Nigel Calder’s Integral boat power system which supplies 9Kw :) It’s even linked by Victron themselves in their blog -  see https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2018/10/03/nigel-calder-and-the-integrel-9kw-alternator-on-steroids/
.  

48v DC for loads ( or in reality about 51v ) is not common yet sadly as it will make wiring for high load devices much simpler and cheaper. Things may change as more boats go electric with nominally 48v battery packs (or higher). I note Selden are now running their latest winches at 40v plus to make it easier to fit in the cabling. They also use a DC-DC boost converter. 

If you really want to go for it change everything to Mastervolt C-Zone switching using the 48v DC as an end-to-end Bus in the boat. :) This kind of thing would be fairly easy to arrange on a custom build (at a price) however as you are finding out a production boat builder will likely limit your options. Hence your changes need to be either done pre-delivery at the dealer or as post delivery updates by yourself. 

Sounds fun!  

Mark

Ps for some further reassurance you are going down a sane path, listen to the recent Nigel Calder episode on 59North Sailing podcast where he talks about the electrical systems on his own boat. 

Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31
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marsella View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marsella Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2024 at 16:11

Just checked their website, they do offer their own SCOTTY AI 12-48V converter but the unit is maxed at 3kW. Seems at the very edge for a modern 50 feet something boat. The price tag is 3,000 USD plus.



Edited by marsella - 21 October 2024 at 16:11
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mr-ludi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mr-ludi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2024 at 19:08
As 460AUS wrote, the 230V inverter is integrated in the 48V system. If you have 3kW for the 12V system, it‘s not less. But it‘s less than a regular 12V system gives you.

I see the main advantage if you have most of the devices switched from 12V to 48V.
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Wayne's World View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne's World Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2024 at 01:34
All sounds good. But what happens if one battery goes us? In a multi battery 12V system you just remove the problem battery. How many batteries in your 48V system? We changed to lithium in 2019 and fitted two 12V/3000W/120AMP inverter chargers which work together. This gives us up to 6000W of 230V and up to 200amps of charging from either shower power or generator. We can run our 8kg washing machine, water heater etc with this setup. We can't run the dive compressor but could if we changed a few things. It also means that if one inverter/charger goes US we still have one operational to provide redundancy. Look forward to see how you go with your system.
Wayne W
Cruising, currently in the Pacific until the end of 2026.
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marsella View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marsella Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2024 at 03:20
Safiery sells their 48V 2.5kWh Lithium batteries (they are packing 16 of 3V cells into a boxTongue). Around 2KUSD per unit. Pretty much double for what you can get from equiv. Victron Li 12Vx200Ah=2.5kWh, currently around 1KUSD.

Edited by marsella - 22 October 2024 at 03:22
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Lhsrris218 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lhsrris218 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2024 at 10:25
Hi.  Any update?
Would there be any advantage to going 48v on a retrofit to a 460?.  I am planning to change to lipo and add solar when boat arrives so all wiring is already high current thick gage anyway.  
Thanks 
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