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Warning - Chafe on new selden furler |
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kipwrite
Commadore Joined: 14 October 2015 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 408 |
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My 505 was equipped with the “coffee cup handle” Furlex unit shown in the top photo shown by Black Diamond. I too was very suspicious of this unit when I bought the boat. Under tension, the bearings are under uneven pressure, and the halyard angle is indeed weird. It just looks like it’s undersized when the halyard is snugged up.
After a chat with the Selden folks in the US, and my broker, I elected to keep it, and keep close watch on it. I inspect a couple times a year and keep the bearings greased. 15,000+ NM miles and four years later, it’s still working perfectly. If it fails, that upgrade looks like a nice choice. Edited by kipwrite - 15 July 2020 at 15:22 |
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Kipwrite
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Black Diamond
Vice Admiral Joined: 24 October 2015 Location: Newport, RI, US Status: Offline Points: 922 |
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The problem is magnified by halyard tension (obviously). With membrane sails (we have the Elvstrom HPM/EPEX sails) and high tech halyards, the halyard tension in the year 2020 can be between 15,000 and 20,000lbs where as when the original Selden furling unit was designed (early 2000s), halyard tensions were at 8000 to 10,000lbs. Its an older design and that much tension with an uneven load (the coffee cup attachment point) just won't work. FWIW Edited by Black Diamond - 15 July 2020 at 15:23 |
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Rick
S/V Black Diamond Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161 Newport, RI |
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kipwrite
Commadore Joined: 14 October 2015 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 408 |
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Makes sense.
Still running with the original halyard, and the original Elvstrom FCL self tacker, and a 105 in CX115. I ease the halyard tension when I roll up the furler.
Edited by kipwrite - 15 July 2020 at 16:21 |
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Kipwrite
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tobo2
Captain Joined: 14 February 2014 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 260 |
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The new Furlex-Selden is the 4th generation. We have a new Hanse 508, 2020 with jib and reacher (2 fixed forstays). Taking down the sails we discovered the same kind of chafing on the reacher swivel. (Type 304E). The after sales dep. of Hanse has to deal now with this issue. We have been furling the reacher sail in and out (electrically) only about 15 to 20 times. I suppose the Dynema eyes are chafing on the forstay rail, with other words the halyard angle is to small. Just replacing the dynema can't be the solution! Imagine what happens if the dynema eyes brake out at sea in rough conditions: you will quickly be in deep troubles. I know a case with a similar issue that ended up in MoB, Mayday and one dead! Or would you like to climb up the mast every month or two to check? Not with me! I think Hanse and Selden have to do their homework! Edited by tobo2 - 23 September 2020 at 14:30 |
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Black Diamond
Vice Admiral Joined: 24 October 2015 Location: Newport, RI, US Status: Offline Points: 922 |
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This seems strange. I have the new unit and it has been great. Do you have a picture of how its sitting at the top of the headstay? It may be that the angle is off or that something is going on specific to your boat. This is how it looks on the top of my boat.. I was told this is the right angle of pull for the unit. Obviously I am interested if you find out more.. Thanks! |
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Rick
S/V Black Diamond Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161 Newport, RI |
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tobo2
Captain Joined: 14 February 2014 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 260 |
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Hi Black Diamond, To hoist the sail again will be rather difficult, as we will be leaving the yacht and only return next spring. I will have to leave it to the After Sales Service of Hanse to deal with it. I'll keep you guys on the current.
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Black Diamond
Vice Admiral Joined: 24 October 2015 Location: Newport, RI, US Status: Offline Points: 922 |
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I asked my rigger if he had seen it. He spoke with Selden. Here is his feedback: "They
have only seen it on a Catalina 425, and no one knows why. If you heat
Dyneema to plus 400 degrees it fails almost instantly. Extreme chafe of
huge Dyneema pennants in mooring and other industrial applications has
shown this. We have pulled small diameter Dyneema to failure with
equipment loading, but it's tough to do. You would be shocked to see
what it takes to fail" "They" are Selden, apparently. |
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Rick
S/V Black Diamond Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161 Newport, RI |
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tobo2
Captain Joined: 14 February 2014 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 260 |
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We had the same problem on a new Hanse 508 with the genua-/reacherswivel. It occured also after just one season and just about 10-15 furling movements. The shipyard replaced the loop and changed the shackel with a Dyneema shackel. As they didn't want to climb the mast to check when furling the reacher in and out, I still don't know if this was any good. Edited by tobo2 - 27 March 2021 at 09:20 |
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Black Diamond
Vice Admiral Joined: 24 October 2015 Location: Newport, RI, US Status: Offline Points: 922 |
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I am using a soft shackle (see picture) rather than a metal shackle to connect the halyard to the furling swivel. How do you have it connected? I'm wondering if that is a factor. |
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Rick
S/V Black Diamond Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161 Newport, RI |
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tobo2
Captain Joined: 14 February 2014 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 260 |
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Hi Rick We have two soft shackles now, one for the jib halyard and one for the genoa. Having second thoughts about the cause of the chafe, I tried to remember what had been changed to the rig during the season and I came out like this: We put more tension on the genoa halyard, meaning the position of the loop was higher than before and touched the tube where the metal shackle had scratched when furling in or out. As soon as the rigging company in Greifswald has the goodness to climb the mast I can prove my guess. So the mounting of the Dyneema shackle is the right action as it doesn't hurt the tube! Edited by tobo2 - 27 March 2021 at 09:25 |
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