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Watermaker Schenker ZEN 100

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Christian K View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Christian K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Watermaker Schenker ZEN 100
    Posted: 30 July 2021 at 20:54
Has anyone experience with the SCHENKER ZEN 100 watermaker?
For our in-build H508 #88 I think about to install this typ.
Sailing in the MED with 450 l main tank + 180 l additional tank
is maybe not enough for 3 cabins, showers etc.

Thanks for your informations - fair winds,
Christian
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Christian K View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Christian K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2021 at 08:35
On the other hand if anyone have good experiences with a other watermaker in case of
small installation space and reliable work I would be interested in your recommandation. Thanks alot
Christian
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Pzucchel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pzucchel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2021 at 17:58
I have installed the zen 50 on my hanse 588, but I still have to test it since I am going in salted water next Monday!  Make sure you have both the membrane cleaning circuit and the flush circuit: I have the pump near the seacock and the membrane in the sail locker, it was a hassle to implement both possibilities... Normally I am ready to go!

I have added one 100L tank to the 750 main tank, and it allows me to evaluate the water quality before filling the produced water into the main..



Edited by Pzucchel - 31 July 2021 at 18:00
Hanse588#55
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Christian K View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Christian K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2021 at 22:09
Thanks alot - thats a great feature to implement a seperate tank.
Whats does it mean with the membrane cleaning circuit and the flush circuit?

Best Christian

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Pzucchel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pzucchel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 00:14
 In addition to the primary circuit, filling seawater into the pump that feeds the membrane, that in its turn splits brine from drinkable water, you need two additional circuits.

1) flushing. This is easy, but it's done every time the watermaker is operated so it needs to be automatic. You feed your pump with drinkable water, from your main tank, and the  brine circuit is now cleaned from the salt. Beware :if the main tank contains chlorinated water from the last filling from the water network of your last harbor, it is not good for the watermaker membrane, your most precious asset... 

2) cleaning. This is done less often, every time you don't use your watermaker for a while (monthly ? Once in a year? It depends on your use. If you use it every day, it could be never...if you stop using it for few weeks, it may be required). In this case, you take the brine outlet, and instead of going into the sea you put it back to the source. The source is a bucket, containing specific chemicals (two types depending on the problem you encounter, provided by schenker) that replaces the seawater at the entrance of the pump and once it reaches the membrane it cleans, sterilizes and purifies the membrane. It all goes into the brine circuit, and you need a close loop to run for few hours by filling the overall circuit (20L bucket?it depends on the volume of your tubing too).

... Now i am sure it's clear to you that a watermaker is the pool of the sailor: for little pleasure, a lot of work and hassles! 🤣 🤣 🤣

Specifically, you realize that if you have the brine exit very far from the seawater inlet, the second circuit is a long one! Additionally, I had to do it myself because the Shenker installation manual doesn't specifically describe it, simply saying you have to do it for the cleaning.... 

I am still learning, I have to start doing it myself.... In few weeks. I will tell you how it goes... And very curious to know from the other guys how it works in practice... 




Edited by Pzucchel - 01 August 2021 at 00:20
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Christian K View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Christian K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 17:04
Thanks again - soo I´m just thinking to move the decission of installation a watermaker to a later point.
The comparisson with the pool is good. I will not use it so frequently in the first years.
Thanks alot - was very helpfull.
Would be great to know more about your further experiences.

Best Christian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne's World Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 18:34
Christian etal,

Watermakers are often troublesome if not installed according the manufacturers instructions. You need the right salt water flow rate and pressures within the system. If you don't you will have continually have problems with water quality and/or output volume. If you are fitting a 12V or 24V system you need to make sure you are the right voltage at the motor/s when the system is running. Under voltage with cause the system to underperform.

Just a few comments - The manufacturers general suggest 3 products to use in the system - 1. Preservative or sometimes called a Biocide or referred to as pickling - this is normally a Sodium Metabisulphite but sometimes sold as "Solution #1".Product number 2 is normally a alkali with  product number 3 being a acid. 

The preservative is used if you are not running the system for a number of months up to a year. For storage over 1 year you need to change the preservative. The newer method of maintaining the system when not being used is manual or auto fresh water flush. The auto version of the FWF runs every 5-7 days (depending on the manufacturer) and flushes for 3-10 minutes (normally programable). If you are running your watermaker every day or every few days there it is not necessary to FWF the system. As Pzucchel mentioned chlorine in the flushing water will damage your membrane/s. You should make sure you fit a activated charcoal filter between the boats water tank/s and the waternmaker FWF system so any chlorine it taken out of the flushing water before getting to the watermaker membrane. If you are leaving your boat for a period you would need to make sure there is enough fresh water in your tanks for the FWF which may happen each week or so.

The alkali and acid cleaners are used once your notice a drop in either output (litres per hour) or higher than normal TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) or both problems. These cleaners do damage to membranes slightly so cleaning would probably be each 12 months or so or a longer interval if possible. Follow the manufacturers instruction for the alkali and acid cleaning. Some manufacturers call these products cleaner 2 and 3 and should be used alkali first, then flush out the system with FW and then the acid cleaner then flush again before using. If this cleaning does not return the output or TDS back to around normal then your membrane may need replacing. Membranes last about 5 years almost regardless of amount of use. Output and TDS are effected by seawater temp and salinity. Changes in output and TDS can often be caused by variations in these.

Most systems have 2 prefilters (20 and 5 micron) and these need to be cleaned or replaced regularly depending on the quality of seawater being put through them. Likewise there is normally a seachest basket or stainless steel plankton filter fitted before the pump/s and this needs to be cleaned regularly.

Fortunately watermaker technology has come a long way in the last 10-15 years and now if the installation is correct in the first place you should have many hours of trouble free operation. With two of us onboard we would normally make about 25,000 of fresh water a year and over 7 years our watermaker have given us very few problems. 


Wayne W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pzucchel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 19:19
Hi Wayne, very precise and informative, as usual. Which watermaker you have? 
Hanse588#55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne's World Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 20:29
When working in the liveaboard scuba diving industry on the Barrier Reef we ran 8 WMs of between 150ltr/hr to 300/ltr/hr. Each of the 4 boats had 2 units and they varied from Village Marine to Aust made commercial units. I then ran a 36 meters superyacht (power) for 6 years that had 2 x 250ltr/hr Aust made commercial units. On Hope we have a HRO Seafari 400 12V which delivers about 65ltr/hr for a current draw of 28 maps which we normally run from solar. For the last few years we have run the HRO about 400 hrs a year because we are fulltime cruising. The HRO has given me very little problems after fixing the installation issues from the shipyard. 
Wayne W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S&J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2021 at 22:15
I found this thread interesting.  I have also deferred installing a watermaker for our first season in the med while I assess the need for it.  I do intend to fit filter inline on the galley tap.
For installation on the 418/458 (and possibly others) I saw a very neat installation.behind the forward settee back on the starboard side on a new 418.  This is an otherwise unused area as there are no cutouts in the panel behind the cushion.
I also liked the look of the Zen products based on the size and simple installation, but it does seem that there are a large number of manufacturers with no dominant player.
H458 #159 Primal Mediterranean cruising
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