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JonB 
Rear Admiral 
Joined: 21 September 2010 Location: Cowes Status: Offline Points: 504 |
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 Posted: 11 April 2016 at 17:46 |
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€2229 which included delivery to the UK
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Jon B
470e http://www.norse-king.blogspot.co.uk |
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samuel
Admiral of the Fleet 
Joined: 26 December 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2770 |
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Posted: 11 April 2016 at 20:38 |
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Do Yanmar advise on a running speed of 2200 rpm or is that the level that owners feel happy with?
It may be that Yanmar intend the engine to run faster- & that does not just apply to your engine, or even just Yanmar Put another way- are owners running engines too slow? |
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Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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JonB
Rear Admiral
Joined: 21 September 2010 Location: Cowes Status: Offline Points: 504 |
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Posted: 11 April 2016 at 21:53 |
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Samuel,
In my youth I built three rally cars and competed in them also, however the days of reducing weight to flywheels, machining heads etc., etc., is passed down to my boys. However the thoughts of making things as efficient as possible is a legacy installed in me. Lets not forget why I changed the prop in the first place. Electrolysis or galvanic corrosion effected the blades and I became conscious that my boat speed was not what I thought it ought to be whilst returning from the Scilly's. At the Southampton boat show I spoke with a few prop manufacturers and sent photographs of its condition, they suggested that the blades could not be repaired. So I went to the manufacturer that is fitted to my boat Flexofold. I also spoke with a chap that had just returned from a round the world cruise, who is more concerned about efficiency than I am, but if your on your own for 3 weeks plus, then the use of water, battery and diesel is focussed far more than I was when I considered speed, was the sole function of efficiency. So running at 2200, to me a reasonable cruising rev rate I was achieving around 5.0 knots with 4.5l/hr being burnt. So far at 1,600 rpm I'm around 6.5 knots. Its too early days to establish what my burn rate is, but in my book, I'm getting more for less. I used to run a pick up truck, a new one at the time. The difference between 70mph & above was increased noise and fuel inefficiency. I am sure that if I ran the engine at 3,500rpm I'd achieve 6.5 knots but at what fuel rate ? Diesel engines are high compression engines and if I can run mine at a reduced rev rate then I'm lessening the stress on all its components. I've changed over prop size, due to the need/wish to replace, others too have felt that for 75hp they're underpowered. I will continue to monitor and report my experiences for others to make a hopefully an informed decision. Let's not forget, they're sailing boats and the use of a prop is usually only when manoeuvring around at close quarters. However, a becalmed trip back give you time to think.
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Jon B
470e http://www.norse-king.blogspot.co.uk |
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Forth
Lieutenant Commander 
Joined: 07 April 2012 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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Posted: 12 April 2016 at 05:28 |
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When I first got my H315 with the standard fixed prop(16x11), running at hull speed required 2800 rpm and there was quite a lot of noise and vibration. There was also quite a lot of vibration in the rudder and sidepull(english?) caused by the propwash.
I wanted to reduce the noise level and the vibration so I ordered a sligtly oversized 2-blade flexofold (17x12). The results were as expected, hull speed at 2200 rpm and less noise and vibration. The propwash effects on the steering were reduced noticeably. The reason for this improvement is that the propwash has a lower speed and larger diameter, so the current hitting the rudder has a smaller energy, different angle and less turbulence. There also the bonus that the boat gets more power for emergencies, or for driving through a current or into strong headwinds. And probably the fuel consumption has gone down, because of the lower revs. The downside is that you may wear out your engine and gearbox sooner, but hey, it's a sailboat. My interpretation is that Yanmar recommends a smaller prop in order to get fewer customer claims, making it the customers responsibility to pay for broken engines/gearboxes in case an oversized prop is used. I have been running my Yanmar 3ym20 with the large prop for 10 years now without any problems. Mike Edited by Forth - 12 April 2016 at 06:01 |
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tobo2
Captain 
Joined: 14 February 2014 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 303 |
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Posted: 12 April 2016 at 10:37 |
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We also have 470e from 2007 with the 75 HP and the Flexofold prop installed by Hanse. We're usually cruising at 2200rpm and make 6.5 to 6.8 kn. Reading this article confirmed my feeling that we always went a bit slower than yachts at our size but it never came to my mind that we'd have a too small prop. I asked Flexofold for an offer (€ 1246.- for bladeset) and they confirmed that 20"x13" is the ideal prop size for the 4JH3. You only have to change the blades. Are there really no more arguments from Yanmar against this size??
Edited by tobo2 - 12 April 2016 at 12:03 |
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JonB
Rear Admiral
Joined: 21 September 2010 Location: Cowes Status: Offline Points: 504 |
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Posted: 20 July 2016 at 18:04 |
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We are approaching the month of August and we will be heading west once more. I should therefore be able to assess the decrease in fuel consumption and higher cruising speeds at 2200 rpm, or that's my hope.
We've not had NK out much so far as our 1850's house has taken up much of our time this year, but I'll be able to measure, log and calculate as well as report on how he behaves during close quarter manoeuvring.
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Jon B
470e http://www.norse-king.blogspot.co.uk |
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jeancharleb
Captain
Joined: 12 December 2008 Location: Marseille, Fr Status: Offline Points: 316 |
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Posted: 03 August 2016 at 11:11 |
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I have one brand new never used it have a Max Prop.
In youre story if it is a mystake , do they exchange for the right prop ? I have a 75 hp 4JH4-TE. |
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Jean Charlebois
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JonB
Rear Admiral
Joined: 21 September 2010 Location: Cowes Status: Offline Points: 504 |
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Posted: 05 August 2016 at 19:10 |
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Alas, if Yanmar were to admit the the props on the 74hp engines were undersized , they'd quantify it by saying that they reduced possible loads on the sail drive and therefore future cost to the end user.
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Jon B
470e http://www.norse-king.blogspot.co.uk |
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tobo2
Captain
Joined: 14 February 2014 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 303 |
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Posted: 09 August 2016 at 15:18 |
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Flexofold wants to know what the max RPMs of our 75 HP engine is (3200 or 3800). It was mounted in 2007 by Hanse. (Why didn't they ask me that in the first place; I didn't know that there are two typs). Can you find out by the serial number?
In a further mail they tell me that for the 75/3800 engine the 18x13 3L prop is correct...... .... End of story: I have a 75/3200 engine (4JH4-TE) and we will mount the 20X13 3L blades. So before you do any changes, look at your engine plate.  Edited by tobo2 - 11 August 2016 at 09:03 |
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JonB
Rear Admiral
Joined: 21 September 2010 Location: Cowes Status: Offline Points: 504 |
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Posted: 07 September 2016 at 21:12 |
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Interesting, not a question I was asked, I will have a look when I find the engine plate !
I've come to the conclusion that the differences I see from peoples responses, we're not comparing like for like. For me in the south coast of the UK which has two tides every six hours twelve or so minutes, this means Norse King is nearly always influenced by tidal currents. Also I try to judge the speed & fuel consumption on engine alone not motor sailing. So I feel there's disparity with the results. This year on our travels to the Scilly Isles, again we stuck to 2200 rpm, we achieved between 5-6.5 knots, but I did note that our fuel consumption fell by at least half a litre. As for boat movements, I did find that I had better control. So there are a lot of variables, as the previous item, what is the max rev range for your engine, is it turbo'd. However if we the users can log our data including whether motor sailed, age or type of anti-fouling, we ought to be able to create a spread sheet.
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Jon B
470e http://www.norse-king.blogspot.co.uk |
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