460, rudder shakes

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   Hi @angorsan,
Got a folding 3 blade prop and the full keel. I have posted some of the surveyor observations in another new topic. Some of the thoughts from the surveyor who is a naval architect are that the bearings are not sitting perfectly. I have been diving down to see if the ruder has any play, but under water it is very hard to determine if that the case and I couldn't feel any play in the rudder nor could observe anything at higher rpm on the shaft from inside...

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Axel1009 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Lieutenant Commander Joined: 08 August 2023 Location: Hong Kong Status: Offline Points: 57	Post Options Post Reply Quote Axel1009 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 October 2024 at 15:27
	Hi @angorsan, Got a folding 3 blade prop and the full keel. I have posted some of the surveyor observations in another new topic. Some of the thoughts from the surveyor who is a naval architect are that the bearings are not sitting perfectly. I have been diving down to see if the ruder has any play, but under water it is very hard to determine if that the case and I couldn't feel any play in the rudder nor could observe anything at higher rpm on the shaft from inside...

LarsE460 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Sub Lieutenant Joined: 30 September 2024 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 4	Post Options Post Reply Quote LarsE460 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 October 2024 at 05:50
	I guess some vibrations should be expected when sailing for motor. But also under sails I am as mentioned having rudder shakes and Hanse will not admit this nor will they do anything about it, so no news (so far).

mr-ludi Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Joined: 25 September 2022 Status: Offline Points: 152	Post Options Post Reply Quote mr-ludi Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 October 2024 at 11:59
	Do you have any idea about the reason for the rudder shakes or how to solve it?

Sailingjack Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commander Joined: 30 March 2011 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 121	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sailingjack Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 October 2024 at 13:16
	Could the vibration be rudder blade trailing edge flow separation? Is it a Jefa rudder with NACA profile? If the trailing edge is symmetric, flow separation may create a vortex, oscillating behind the profile. One solution is to skew the trailing edge ie. make it asymmetric.
	Hanse 400#803 s/y Saara

460AUS Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Lieutenant Joined: 21 June 2024 Status: Offline Points: 46	Post Options Post Reply Quote 460AUS Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 October 2024 at 00:33
	Hi All, I sent the Axel post to my local Hanse dealer and they responded: There will always be cavitation under motor due to the sail drive being in front of the rudder. This is certainly not a “Critical Fault”. Rest assured it is normal when the yacht is under motor. The implication is that if you are experiencing the rudder shakes under sail there is a problem, perhaps a design one? Is there any update from Hanse/your local distributor?

415 Singapore Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Vice Admiral Joined: 23 September 2013 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 935	Post Options Post Reply Quote 415 Singapore Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 October 2024 at 07:33
	Hi, I think the implication is that I am incredibly lucky not to have suffered from these ‘perfectly normal’ vibrations on any of the single rudder sail drive fitted boats I have owned! Have you talked to Jefa? Good luck Paul
	Paul - Night Train - 415 #136

Arcadia Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 27 November 2017 Location: Sag Harbor, USA Status: Offline Points: 1112	Post Options Post Reply Quote Arcadia Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 October 2024 at 15:37
	Yes, if Jefa made the rudders as they have for many years then they would and should have something to say about it.
	Leon / ARCADIA 2018 Hanse 588 Sag Harbor, NY

Axel1009 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Lieutenant Commander Joined: 08 August 2023 Location: Hong Kong Status: Offline Points: 57	Post Options Post Reply Quote Axel1009 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 October 2024 at 06:04
	Interesting turn of events with my Hanse dealer and the boatyard engineers here. Been through a whole boat review with all issues and while in the past days my dealer denied the rudder shaking to be an issue, he now agreed this is an issue since the engineer from the yard said it's absolutely not normal. A few things will happen now: boatyard will reach out to Jefa and ask if any known issues or changes have been throughout the deliveries of the H460 to the rudder. In addition the dealer will reach out to other H460 owners to check if they have the same issue with earlier deliveries. Another thing we will check is if the sail drive might sit slightly off center, which would explain my boat turning hard to starboard. The boatyard engineer is convinced this is abnormal and an issues to be resolved - same as the naval architect that did the survey for me. I'll update on progress and outcomes.

460AUS Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Lieutenant Joined: 21 June 2024 Status: Offline Points: 46	Post Options Post Reply Quote 460AUS Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 October 2024 at 07:22
	Thanks Axel, your update is much appreciated. I look forward to hearing about the next steps. Cheers J

mr-ludi Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Joined: 25 September 2022 Status: Offline Points: 152	Post Options Post Reply Quote mr-ludi Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 October 2024 at 08:05
	It sounds interesting. Do you want to have my contact details via PM, to make it possible for your dealer to contact me as another owner with this issue? Please keep us updated.



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