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Below deck auto pilot for Hanse 315

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Jawi View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 February 2022 at 17:37
Hi
We are considering upgrading to a below deck auto pilot for our Hanse 315 2007 model.
In particular, we are currently considering the DD15 JEFA direct drive auto pilot.

Some questions:
1. In general, I am wondering if anyone have done such an installation on the specified Hanse model and are willing to share pictures and experience.

2. The existing tiller lever only has one hole which is used to attach the wheel steering, while another one is needed for the autopilot. Is common practice to drill another hole in the iron tiller level, replace the iron tiller lever or e.g. extend with a steel bracket?

3. Various placements of the autopilot drive could be considered, shelf attached to rear bulk head that is 90 degrees to the sailing direction, vertical mounting on rear bulk head that is next to rear cabin going in sailing direction, or transom. Any thoughts?

Best regards
Jan
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perry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote perry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2022 at 19:01
Hi, I have a 315 2007 version.
I fitted a Raymarine linear drive 2 years back. It is a long story so I will try and put it down with photos for you in next few days. Its not easy, I had it first fitted proffesionaly, but it was not right, I had to re fit it myself to get good result. It was worth the effort and now tranforms my sailing.
I am a retired engineer, and dont have problem with this stuff, and I employed a proffesional with the hope of saving time. How wrong I was. If I can explain the problems I may save you some effort and money.
I will be in touch.
Perry Isle of Wight
Current Yacht Hanse 315 2007
Last Yacht Hanse 301 Round GB in 2017
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Jawi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jawi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2022 at 20:13
Hi Perry
Thanks a lot. 
I imagine it is not a straight forward task, but great to hear that it transformed your sailing experience. Exactly what we hope too:)
I also hope to do a potential installation myself, also engineering background:)
Looking forward to hearing more. 
Best regards
Jan
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Ploogman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ploogman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2022 at 10:16
Hi Jawi, Perry,

I have a 2006 Hanse 315 and am also considering a below deck auto pilot. My first (very rough) estimate without proper inspection was EUR 6.700, but some assumptions were made requring a very strong drive which had a knock on effect on other items. 

I am interested to see Perry's installation and to see what Jawi decides on.

Paul (Netherlands)
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perry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote perry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2022 at 14:28
Let me know if you can make any sense of it?
I put them on this .pdf link below hope it is readable. It worked for me!


OK  Guys, I'm getting round to detailing my installation for you but its a bit of a task [ thats for me writing it down and getting decent photos].
I'll make a bit of a start.:-
First the importance of understanding all aspects of the steering system. Mine is a Lewmar wheel steering system. I am the second owner of the boat the first was a Hanse agent who did no work in this area. So when my Professional installer handed over his work I was dissapointed to find the Raymarine auto pilot control head showed the rudder movement to be very assymetric. The ruddershould move 36 degrees eithe side for the same movement on the wheel;    At this point I started to investgate the installation.
What I found was that the assymetry was caused by the Lewmar tiller arm installed the wrong way round???. [thats actuall the wrong way up?]
To understand this you need to see the Lewmar installation handbook. Basically the arm on the bottom of the pedestal is shorter than the tiller arm. The distance from the pedestal centre to the rudder shaft is 800mm. The Lewmar tiller arm fitted had a 10 degree offset [it should have been 5 degrees. When Hanse assembled the system they used a link rod whos minimum adjustment was 840mm? this meant that to make it fit the tiller arm was fitted upside down [ie with 20 degree offset!] so for the straight ahead rudder position the arm on the pedestal was off by 20 degrees.
Lewmar say :-

OK:   to fix this mess was my next problem. Ideally I needed a 40mm shorter link arm [800mm], and a Lewmar tiller arm with 5 degree offset. I looked at cutting and re-welding the end fitting of the link arm an easier way was to remove the thick locking nuts from the spherical bearings at each end  and replace with  thin nuts, perfectly adequate for the duty. A new Lewmar tiller arm was expensive, cutting a new keyway not viable. In the end decided that the 10 degree arm fitted the right way round was only a 5degree error and with the corrected link arm length was near enough.
Now my installer had the Raymarine Linear drive well mounted under the Starboard aft locker, on a thick SS plate through bolted on the transom and on the bulkhead forward. A 15mm thick X 50mm wide 250mm long arm had been welded to the Lewmar Tiller arm to drive the rudder. I cut off this arm and had it welded  back to the other side of the tiller arm so that it could be fitted the right way round [10degree offset].
The rudder positon sensor was badly mounted and this caused some lack of stability in control. I re mounted the sensor and fitted another arm solidly on the tiller arm [I will try and show this in some photos. But access is difficult even with a camera?
My installer fitted the ACU SEnsor too close to the linear drive to save money on cabling, the stray magnetic field from Driveubit made it impossible to get calibration of compass. I moved it forward mounted above aft bunk, nice dry and work great.

I will try and reinforce this difficult description with some photos when I can get on the boat.
My 315[2007] had no provision to help install either the Raymarine of a Jeffra drive.

I choose the Raymarine 1) because its cheaper than Jefra,  cheap enough to carry a spare  2) its simple, well made and has been used on the water a long time, its actually on mk2 version so hopefully now fully sorted..
My concern  was that the recirculating ball leadscrew would be a drag on the steering when clutch disengaged; it isnt at all noticable. And unlike the Jeffra its hasnt problems with clutch



Edited by perry - 12 February 2022 at 17:54
Current Yacht Hanse 315 2007
Last Yacht Hanse 301 Round GB in 2017
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Arcadia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arcadia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2022 at 14:59
Hello Perry. I want to commend you on your thorough understanding of these steering and autopilot systems. They may look simple at first, but there are complexities details on the angles, forces and geometry at work. Unfortunately these are overlooked by installers and builders alike. I have just completely replaced my H588 steering and autopilot for similar reasons as you. Bad design and faulty installation by Hanse. Two recent failures at sea on other H588ís convinced me to make a change. As a result Iíve had to educate myself as you did on the proper design and installation because I no longer trusted Hanse or the boatyards to do the same. Having peace of mind on something as important as your steering is priceless.

Leon
Leon / ARCADIA
2018 Hanse 588
Sag Harbor, NY
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Matt1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2022 at 17:50
Good choice - Alex Thompson had Raymarine drives on his previous IMOCA Hugo Boss (that he finished 2nd in the Vendee Globe) Apparently they were so robust / reliable the 2nd (redundant) drive never got used at all
Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK

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perry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote perry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2022 at 11:15
Jawi I have amended my post on autopilot under deck installation to include some photos. As it wasnt new post you may not get reminder
Current Yacht Hanse 315 2007
Last Yacht Hanse 301 Round GB in 2017
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Jawi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jawi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2022 at 17:48
Thanks a lot for the detailed information. It's really impressive the way you manage to come around all the obstacles and find a good solution. I see I have quite a bit of learning to do before proceeding and will try to understand your input in detail before deciding on the next steps. The pictures are also great. Again, thanks a lot and I might come back to you for more detailed questions when my knowledge has matured a bit:)
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Jawi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jawi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2022 at 14:24
Here is a brief update on the autopilot installation we ended up with for our Hanse 315 2007.
- DD1 from JEFA with integrated garmin rudder sensor.
- New tiller lever from JEFA, 7 degrees, to get approximate offset.
- Draglink from JEFA (200 to 300mm) with approximate 300mm setting
- Garmin reactor 40
- 10mm aluminum shelf for DD1 mounting
- Through hole aluminum shelf mounting on bulkhead with one layer fiber glass on each side.
- Fiber glass mounting platform for rear mounting of DD1 shelf.

So far happy with the solution after a few hundred nm.
- Approx. 1.3A to 1.7A average current Garmin oower unit consumption, fed from LiPO battery.
- Quite compact installation with the drive unit shelf close to rudder shaft. Still use the space in a similar manner as before.
- Integrated rudder sensor simplified the installation.
- No hole though hull.
- Noise level is a lot lower than with the previous wheel pilot. Not noticable with engine, can hear during sailing but not annoying.
- The garmin reactor autopilot has performed satisfactory. Seem to need some adjustment on response setting based on conditions, low response with close-hauled and wind following, and high response with running downwind and fixed heading.



Edited by Jawi - 25 July 2022 at 16:35
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