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Charm and problems of H 630, Duly answer
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ZENYACHT View Drop Down
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Joined: 05 May 2007
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Points: 156 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZENYACHT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2010 at 20:09
Dear Taima

The upper ruder bearing holds the rudder up.

The lower rudder bearing self aligns the rudder. It doesnt hold anything

The autopilot tiller arm also holds the rudder shaft in the event of shearing the upper rudder bearing. Acts as a safe "bracket"

Note that many hanses are not equiped with the Jeffa electric drive supplied by lewmar and got different autopilots ( like the Raymarime hydraulic unit)

ZENCAP


Originally posted by TAIMA TAIMA wrote:

Hi Athina captain,
You explained the "rudder fell off completely" and that "it sheared off". The picture looks like a delamination or ripping off of the pu foam and epoxy cover of the rudder. Would you please explain what you think happened. Did the rudder stock fail or break ? Did the stock just shear off? Have you had any electrolisis problems on the rudder stock, like I understand Atanor had? Have you hit something in the past even slightly which could explain water being absorbed by the foam and delamination ? What we see on the icture happened during the big bang you describe?How can the autopilot system avoid the rudder from falling off? The autopilot is just a motor connected to your Jefa Steering gearbox and from this box there is a steering rod connected to the rudder quadrant, so what did the pilot do to avoid falling off?

I really would like to know more on this subject and start to look at the right places on my own boat. Mine is Nr 5 and I just have it in drydock for the yearly mantainance and antifouling jobs so I could take advantage and examine my rudder system.


Edited by ZENYACHT - 09 September 2010 at 20:12
ZENCAP
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greeksailor View Drop Down
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Points: 2 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greeksailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2010 at 21:19
by chance I see this discussion. Sorry to tell you that Athina hit some rocks while in Greece last year and spent almost a year fixing the damaage. all they say here is ****sh*t.
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Johan Hackman View Drop Down
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Points: 4361 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johan Hackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2010 at 21:40
This reminds me a bit of the "exploding hull" thread. I just wonder if Santa Clause is somewhat involved?

Johan

http://www.johanhackman.se
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Johan Hackman View Drop Down
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Originally posted by ZENYACHT ZENYACHT wrote:


this pic is NOT out of context. Nor I'm trying toi mislead anybody.


Sorry, but I think it IS out of context. The picture shows a rudder from another boat. Just because it is from a Hanse doesn't make it relevant.

Johan

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TAIMA View Drop Down
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Points: 93 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TAIMA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2010 at 22:30
Zencap,
 
I think you mean the rudder quadrant. This looks like a small tiller arm, but its the same arm on which the steering rods act or, if it would be the case, the wires are connected. This is not the autopilot tiller? As far as I know only the Hanse 630#1 Karina and #2 Gaga and # 3 Rastrelly had the wire system. I thought # 4 Athina already was equipped with Jefa steering as well as my # 5 Taima and all the subsequent Hanse 630 s.
Thomas Pollehne
Hanse 630/06 TAIMA
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ZENYACHT View Drop Down
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Points: 156 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZENYACHT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2010 at 00:53
Dear Taima

You can see here an autopilot tiller. The tiller is not a quadrant is just a tiller,

In case of the rudder supporting bearing failure. the rudder will be held by the tiller, hanging.

by the way as you can see this tiller is broken. This is an EDSON autopilot tiller bracket that broke due to void pockets on the metal the same day was installed. Not related to Hanse. So don't ask if this pic is out of context.

ZENCAP



Edited by ZENYACHT - 10 September 2010 at 00:59
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ZENYACHT View Drop Down
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Points: 156 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZENYACHT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2010 at 01:03
Dear Greeksailor

Your profile shows you have joined this forum today.

The type of language you are using says all about yourself.

This forum is just for HANSE OWNERS sharing the good and bad experiences of Hanse ownership, and not for industry interested parties messing around.

ZENCAP

Originally posted by greeksailor greeksailor wrote:

by chance I see this discussion. Sorry to tell you that Athina hit some rocks while in Greece last year and spent almost a year fixing the damaage. all they say here is ****sh*t.
ZENCAP
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ZENYACHT View Drop Down
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Points: 156 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZENYACHT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2010 at 01:08
Dear Johan

The picture shows a rudder delamination problem that happened in several Hanse boats and not just on this particular boat.

The picture also serve to show the inside structure of the rudder and that is one of the reasons of having that picture posted.

Something very similar happened in a 540 in Barcelona Spain two years ago on a brand new boat during a seatrial.

ZENCAP


Originally posted by Johan Hackman Johan Hackman wrote:

Originally posted by ZENYACHT ZENYACHT wrote:


this pic is NOT out of context. Nor I'm trying toi mislead anybody.


Sorry, but I think it IS out of context. The picture shows a rudder from another boat. Just because it is from a Hanse doesn't make it relevant.

Johan
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TAIMA View Drop Down
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Points: 93 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TAIMA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2010 at 17:50
Dear Zencap
I have the feeling that you are quite upset with some of us? If so please calm down and dont take this personally. We are all trying to understand the rudder failure occured on Athina, but it seems that you know more about that case ?. I never said you showed pics out of context I wrongly combined your posted picture with the Athina problem. Nevertheless the tiller you describe is what I mean under quadrant. Each steering system has a rudder a stock and a quadrant which transmits the forces to the steering system. This quadrand is not always a quadrant it can be a triangle or even just a tiller but I learned to call it a quadrant and in our case (630s) has nothing to do with the autopilot, from there my misunderstanding.  I dont know if you have seen the 630/Jefa gearbox steering, but I can tell you the autopilot does not attach to the tiller, its just an electric motor drive acting on the gearbox. So this is just a misunderstanding and we both mean the same. If the tiller held back the stock on Athina, which sounds logic, the force to shear off the stock from the upper bearing must have been tremendous. The more curios I am now to find out what happened ? Please Athina show us the pictures and give us news.
Thomas Pollehne
Hanse 630/06 TAIMA
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ZENYACHT View Drop Down
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Points: 156 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZENYACHT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 September 2010 at 10:00
Dear Taima

Picture 1 shows a quadrant picture 2 show a tiller. The fuction is the same steer the rudder. Please note that not all hanses are created equal .

As an example my boat has no quadrant as the transmission is Lewmar´s rack and pinion. Rack and pinion doesn´t use wire as a mean of transmission.

Hanse changed several transmision systems on the 530 ,540, 630 series.

Zencap





Originally posted by TAIMA TAIMA wrote:

Dear Zencap

I have the feeling that you are quite upset with some of us? If so please calm down and dont take this personally. We are all trying to understand the rudder failure occured on Athina, but it seems that you know more about that case ?. I never said you showed pics out of context I wrongly combined your posted picture with the Athina problem. Nevertheless the tiller you describe is what I mean under quadrant. Each steering system has a rudder a stock and a quadrant which transmits the forces to the steering system. This quadrand is not always a quadrant it can be a triangle or even just a tiller but I learned to call it a quadrant and in our case (630s) has nothing to do with the autopilot, from there my misunderstanding.  I dont know if you have seen the 630/Jefa gearbox steering, but I can tell you the autopilot does not attach to the tiller, its just an electric motor drive acting on the gearbox. So this is just a misunderstanding and we both mean the same. If the tiller held back the stock on Athina, which sounds logic, the force to shear off the stock from the upper bearing must have been tremendous. The more curios I am now to find out what happened ? Please Athina show us the pictures and give us news.


Edited by ZENYACHT - 11 September 2010 at 11:41
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