Lithium batteries

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   I am looking to replace my 2 AGMs with lithium batteries and flex solar panels on my Bimini Anyone have idea how to fit 2 300AH batteries in that space or other?  Is one 300 enough?

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Joey D Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commander Joined: 27 June 2018 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 82	Post Options Post Reply Quote Joey D Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Lithium batteries Posted: 29 January 2020 at 01:37
	I am looking to replace my 2 AGMs with lithium batteries and flex solar panels on my Bimini Anyone have idea how to fit 2 300AH batteries in that space or other? Is one 300 enough?

Jooce Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Lieutenant Joined: 08 November 2013 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 37	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jooce Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 January 2020 at 09:14
	I fitted 2 x 100 AH LiFePo4 batteries in my H385, replacing 2 x 160Ah AGM batteries. I have been running for two seasons and I have never been close to out of power. The lithium battery can take so much more charge from the alternator compared with the AGM. I'd say that 300Ah is enough. It is comparable with 600Ah of AGM as you can discharge your LiFePO4 batteries down to around 10%
	KarmaDos- Hanse 385 - 2013

S&J Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 30 August 2014 Location: Perth WA / Med Status: Offline Points: 1371	Post Options Post Reply Quote S&J Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 January 2020 at 12:49
	Hi Jooce. What age were the AGM batteries when you replaced them? Mine are now 5 seasons old and I think they may be on their way out. What changes did you need to make to the charging systems? And finally can you recommend a brand / supplier?
	H458 #159 Primal Mediterranean cruising

Matt1 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rear Admiral Joined: 10 March 2019 Location: Hamble, UK Status: Offline Points: 727	Post Options Post Reply Quote Matt1 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 January 2020 at 13:20
	I had two lifeline AGM batteries on my last boat. Bought in 2005. After a few years I returned them to Merlin in Poole as they appeared to be losing charge. They ran an aggressive test on them. Can't remember the name, but I think it involved charging them then aggressively discharging them. They were returned to me & performed brilliantly. When I sold the boat last year there was no sign of deterioration in them! Boat was on a pile mooring with solar panel Pretty sure I have subsequently read that the aggressive discharge can "reset" the battery ...but I'm no expert. On the other hand, my red flash engine battery that I also bought for the last boat did not last well!
	Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK

Joey D Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commander Joined: 27 June 2018 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 82	Post Options Post Reply Quote Joey D Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 January 2020 at 13:48
	I am looking at the Relion 300AH which unfortunately costs about $3,500 and adding as much solar to the bimini as I can fit. My biggest draw when on the hook will be the refrig that I think is about 110/day I think?? I am thinking I will use 200AH/day but I am really not sure. If anyone thinks I am way off please advise as I am new to this whole thing?? Thanks

Jooce Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Lieutenant Joined: 08 November 2013 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 37	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jooce Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 January 2020 at 15:18
	Hi, Not sure about age. My boat was manufactured in 2013 and I bought in in 2017. I do not think they were original batteries as they had labels in Swedish on them so they are less than 4 yrs old. Probably changed by the previous owner who did not have much knowledge about electricity and drained the old batteries a couple of times. I bought 2x100 AH from Sunbeam systems (https://www.sunbeamsystem.com/en/smart-l-i-t-h-i-u-m-2/). They are smart and have built in BMS. They claimed that they can be mixed with AGM batteries but not in the same circuit. I still have my AGM starter battery. The only thing I did was to change the thresholds on my VSR to close at 13.6V and open at 13.4 volts. (LiFePO4 batteries have a higher voltage at rest - 13.3V compared to around 12.8V for fully charged batteries) and to avoid that the Lithium batteries drained current to the starter battery I chose to increase the opening voltage to 13.3V. This also means that as soon as I stop the engine, the current falls below 13.4, relay opens and there is no connection between housing and starter battery. I also have a 100W Solar panel connected to the housing battery side of the relay which will start to charge the Lithium batteries first. If the current stays above 13.6V for a longer time, the relay will close and also charge the starter battery. The batteries also have bluetooth connection for app to iOS or Android where you easily can see the status. Very nice, I can strongly recommend.
	KarmaDos- Hanse 385 - 2013

colinc Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Joined: 08 May 2019 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 169	Post Options Post Reply Quote colinc Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 January 2020 at 16:02
	Hi Joey. I was living on the hook for a fair bit last spring and summer using solar and measuring consumption and charging. I have a 505 with a double drawer fridge, LED lighting, WiFi router, and music as my main uses of power when at anchor. I was averaging about 1.4 kWh per day (or 110 Ah). The fridge was the large part of that. I was in Greece that was pretty warm (30C+) most days. So your estimate is a little high I think, but it depends on how you use it. On the supply side I have two 120W fixed panels that I leave on deck pointing roughly at the sun avoiding shadows. I got about 1.1kWh most days from that (or 85Ah). So I had a deficit of 25Ah a day. It varies according to how often I open the fridge or was diligent in placing the panels - but that was the average. My batteries are at total of 520Ah in four Victron AGM packs. I am happy to let them get to 70% charge to get a reasonable life out of them - so 156Ah to use. Therefore I can be at anchor for six days before getting to 70% charge. Of course the lowest point of charge each day is first thing in the morning so you also have to take off overnight use. My fridge works less hard overnight so there is a nighttime dip of another 40Ah - so actually about 4-5 days at anchor without going below 70%. Usually I am moving on to another island by then and, being the Med, using enough engine to get that back to 100% easily. I also have a generator if I don't want to move - but rarely use that just for charging (but do when I run the washing machine). Of course one more solar panel would remove the deficit entirely. I thought of Lithium batteries. I would need 300Ah to be equivalent. I do have the option to take my AGMs down to 50% charge if I don't do it too often. My AGMs cost me about 1,300 euro. Lithium would have been about 2.5 times that. I reckon on getting at least five years from the AGMs whereas Lithium maybe ten or so - maybe a bit more time on both. So cost neutral if you plan on owning your boat at least ten years plus. AGM cheaper if not. Lithium is much lighter so I would do that if I raced, which I don't. Also the tech is better and improving all the time. I think the next time I change my batteries they will be Lithium. But I will likely be owning a different boat. Hope that helps. Edited by colinc - 29 January 2020 at 16:46

Joey D Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commander Joined: 27 June 2018 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 82	Post Options Post Reply Quote Joey D Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 January 2020 at 16:56
	I estimate my usage to be about the same as yours, perhaps a little less with the smaller frig. Great information from all which I much appreciate to get me heading in the right direction. Once installed I'm heading from So. Fla to the Bahamas!!! :0) Thanks Joe 2014 Hanse 415

colinc Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Joined: 08 May 2019 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 169	Post Options Post Reply Quote colinc Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 January 2020 at 17:19
	My battery monitor and solar controller are both Victron. So I added their Venus GX system monitor. It is a little computer that measures all current flows from solar, battery and demand side in real time - saving it to very useful graphs. I think other suppliers do similar. It is really useful to know exactly how much I am getting from my panels or how much switching on that device actually is drawing. My kids all charging ipads and phones adds a far bit. So we have a "charge it when under motor" policy. Or at least not overnight.

AnnSea Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Joined: 03 March 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 159	Post Options Post Reply Quote AnnSea Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 January 2020 at 05:08
	converting to Lithium is an interesting subject - good to hear experiences. I've had 4 120AH AGM (Fullriver) batteries installed since June 2014 - 7 1/2 years! - the fridge is always on and draws around 35AH overnight - maximum usage when onboard is around 100AH overnight although I try hard to keep it lower than that. I have found that having good quality chargers and limiting the battery drain to be the secret to long life. The batteries no longer test as new ones do (voltage drop is higher when a good load is applied) but they are not anywhere near needing to be replaced. I'm hoping to get Lithium next time especially if the price keeps coming down.
	Tim AnnSea 370e #418



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