lifepo4 batteries

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   looks like there is room for at least one more battery?

Is the wooden plate covering everything standard or homemade?

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H8jer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 14 September 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 1503	Post Options Post Reply Quote H8jer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 July 2020 at 18:37
	looks like there is room for at least one more battery? Is the wooden plate covering everything standard or homemade?
	Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin

Fendant Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 03 November 2012 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 1671	Post Options Post Reply Quote Fendant Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 July 2020 at 11:06
	Yep, there is at least space for a 3rd battery, with a small modification of the wooden panel in the back you might even squeeze in 4 LFP's of 100 Ah. Wooden floor and wooden back are original Hanse installation. Honestly I was happy during the installation that I could use screws to mount the extra equipment, like the battery combiner switch box- This allows to combine starter and service battery. In fact last year when I was out singlehanded and approaching a port to avoid an approaching thunderstorm, my starter batt gave up after 6 years of service. Acrtivated the switch and presto I had he eegine in under 60 secs.
	Frank

pdc78 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commander Joined: 27 May 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 142	Post Options Post Reply Quote pdc78 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 July 2020 at 11:28
	Frank - I assume you have had to run some big cables from the engine to your House Battery bank for that emergency switch over. I'm fairly sure that Hanse don't put this wiring into a 345 standard build. Did you consider a Lion Car Jump Starter / Portable External Battery Charger such as the Arteck 900A? They are very compact and multi-purpose and can be bought for c. £70. I don't have one at the moment and had the emergency switch option on my previous boat - which was reassuring. I just wondered whether the compact portable jump starter was a lower cost and simpler alternative. Regards, Paul
	H345 #269

Fendant Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 03 November 2012 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 1671	Post Options Post Reply Quote Fendant Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 July 2020 at 08:06
	Hello Paul, the battery combiner is in the Sterling VSR wiring diagram. It is a single switch overriding the voltage sensitive relaiy. There is a 150 mm2 cable to the positive bus bar installed by Hanse. I have used it only for a few seconds to start the engine. Once ot is running you disconnect the override switch. I had a set of jump start cables on board. However Hanse installed the battery way back in the engine bay. Connecting it safely is a PITA job. Hence I decided against a separate flying cable solution.
	Frank

pdc78 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commander Joined: 27 May 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 142	Post Options Post Reply Quote pdc78 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 July 2020 at 09:26
	Thanks Frank. So in effect you are just using the engine battery charging cable for the occasional jump start using your service batteries? Regards, Paul
	H345 #269

H8jer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 14 September 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 1503	Post Options Post Reply Quote H8jer Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 04 July 2020 at 08:05
	New saga update. Got a cheap "Premium Quality Alanko Gmvh Germany" Alternator (LR180-03A) I was an easy swap with no need to alter anything. The Alternator came with a printout from a test application "DV electronics LTD" From this sheet there was some interesting details. Maximum Alternator output 109 Amps. Alternator TurnOn speed 1255rpm Regulator activation speed 1332rpm Voltage Set Point 14.09 volts It also had a table about output 1600rpm 53 Amps 1800rpm 66 Amps 2000rpm 76 Amps 2400rpm 88 Amps 3500rpm 101 Amps 5000rpm 107 Amps 6000rpm 109 Amps The engine pully and the alternator pulley is not of the same size so a gearing is in play. With Laser Counter it was possible to meassure the speeds of the pulleys. Engine Rpm 1500 equals Alternator 2400rpm. This is Ratio of 1:1,6. This also means that this Alternator needs the engine run 830 rpms or faster before the Regulator starts. This is 100 rpm more than normal engine idle meassured earlier. The new setup was tested for a short while and the cooling fanblades is a great improvement. This photo shows the Alternator from above and this is when the engine is hot and at 1500rpm. So the fan is not spinning as fast as it would during our normal 2500rpm cruise Speed(Alternator 4000rpm) So the cooling is going to be great. When I meassure Amps I can only see what is sent to the depleted old House Batteries. 3x75Ah, but the TR16 shunt reports that the batteries in total only hold 100AH. I can't meassure what is sent to the 2x102Ah Thruster/Winch batteries but they have not been used and only recieve about 2-5 Amps on shore power. I have a ClampMeter but think It is not precise. During the test the max Amps was 50. But I think it is time to insert the 3x100Ah lifepo4 batteries as the current setup looks to be bottlenecked somehow. So to Recap the Altornator Part of this upgrade project: With old batteries down to 9.9volt the max charge was 18Amps from the stock Alternator. With the Sterling ProAltC the Charging was improved but it made the Alternator turn into a fire hazard. It turned out to be that regular belts are no good for high Alternator Output. With the new XPA type belt the slipping stopped. But It also showed the stock 60 amp Alternator was needing additional air circulation which resulted in upgrading to a new Alternator. So next episode will include the replacement of the batteries. Edited by H8jer - 04 July 2020 at 10:01
	Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin

H8jer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 14 September 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 1503	Post Options Post Reply Quote H8jer Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 08 July 2020 at 21:45
	The lifepo4 batteries (3×100AH) are now installed. To fit the battery box it was necessary to cut the entry hole for the negative larger so the hole enters at the same height as the battery terminals. (Upmost left corner) The cables are on top of the batteries and they are the ones that needed attention. But to get the seatcover to fit it was quite easy. With some removal of wood is fit perfect. It took some time to run the batteries down to 75% before I could stress test the new setup. ( 80 amps Alternator, Sterling Pro AltC Alternator to Battery Charger) The engine was run for aprox 15-20 min. The Max charge was 50 amps just like the old Lead Batteries. With the Sterling disconnected max was 18 amps. So again something was bottlenecking... With the thermal camera the was found a cable in the engine room that was on hard work. This cable is the negative from the Alternator. The stock alternator and my new upgrade are Isolated, meaning they don't share the negative with the engine through it's mountings. So stupid me, that cable is like 10mm2. The positive is 35mm2. A 50mm2 was added between the Alternator and the engine where all the negative cables for the winches also are attached. The engine was run again. This time the max charge was an improvement by 10 amps to 60 amps. As I am not familiar with the charge character for Lifepo4 batteries I was uncertain If there still was an cable thickness issue. The Sterling did increase charge a lot, but the voltage seemed low. The starter battery only got 12.9volt and the Lifepo4 got 13.5. I would have expected it to show 14.6 volts at the batteries. So just to be sure the positive from the Alternator to the Sterling was added a second 35mm2. (Pulled the cable through the hidden areas and it was 7.5meters) The engine was run again and this time it was 71 amps maximum. Without the Sterling it was 24 amps. I think that 71 amps at normal cruise speed is quite reasonable from an 80 amps Alternator. Also the cooling don't seem to be a problem. Edited by H8jer - 08 July 2020 at 21:52
	Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin

Forth2 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Lieutenant Commander Joined: 23 October 2016 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 77	Post Options Post Reply Quote Forth2 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 July 2020 at 10:10
	I was reading the Sterling AtoB manual. It charges the LFPs to 14.8 V and then floats at 14.6V. I hope the float voltage is a typo, since a float voltage of 14.6 will destroy the batteries. There was another lead program with a low float voltage of 13.4 which is perfect for LFPs. I would use that instead. Edited by Forth2 - 09 July 2020 at 17:08

H8jer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 14 September 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 1503	Post Options Post Reply Quote H8jer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 July 2020 at 18:50
	the paper manual and the online states on page three: Lifepo4 - Boost 14.6v and float 14.4v. But thx for the headsup. I will measure it to check.
	Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin

Forth2 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Lieutenant Commander Joined: 23 October 2016 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 77	Post Options Post Reply Quote Forth2 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 July 2020 at 19:20
	I took the numbers from memory. Anyway, 14.4 V as float is way too high.



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