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Lithium replacement. |
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Mike2145 
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Joined: 18 October 2014 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 278 |
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 Posted: 03 October 2023 at 16:22 |
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You could try this to start? Minimal change and if you're not happy with the AGM charge profile on the Lithium's and need to change, none of these changes need to be undone. Gives you the option for adding the additional relays or a new inverter/charger at a later date.
Using the 'engine on' feature you can eliminate the need for the ACR and this also charges the thruster battery on shore power as well as engine.  |
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Cant take a joke, don't buy a boat.
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SimonGH
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Joined: 08 September 2021 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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Posted: 04 October 2023 at 19:41 |
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Yes, much simpler. I've got to delve into the specific charging behavior of the MultiPlus Compact and what settings are adjustable. I've also got to get a bit smarter on what is "good enough" for LiFePo4. There's a lot of misunderstanding around "float" charging, and ultimately as far as i've learned it's literally impossible to "float" LiFePo4 batteries because that's not how their chemistry works. So it's more about what the bulk & absorption voltages are, and what the charger does when it hits those thresholds.
We're coming into the winter months so I've got plenty of time to figure it out properly. I will say that my original plan was to use the Nordkyn device to control the alternator output, and prior to that I bought a bunch of Balmar stuff, so at this point its less about the cost and more about doing it properly. I also realize I was way more focused on the alternator output side (which is solved by the DC-DC chargers), and didn't think about the inverter/charger, which is proving to be more important! I'm not about to drop +$1200 on a new inverter/charger because I'm too lazy to learn however...! I think either way will work - but simplicity would be better. more to come!
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Ian Coverdale
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Joined: 19 June 2019 Location: Travelling Status: Offline Points: 311 |
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Posted: 05 October 2023 at 14:20 |
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Which firmware version of the Multiplus do you have, Simon?
Going 'lithium' is rarely straightforward and frequently marketed term 'drop-in replacement' is laughable. Those boasting of no issues are either ignorant of the pitfalls or glossing over them! |
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Ian & Andrea
SV Gabrielle (H445) Liveaboards - currently Montenegro. www.facebook.com/sailinggabrielle |
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SimonGH
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Joined: 08 September 2021 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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Posted: 05 October 2023 at 16:04 |
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Hard to say - I know the processor sticker starts with a "20"
I reached out to Victron, and apparently I can "probably" configure things with VEConfigure and the Mk3-USB dongle. It won't talk to the newer VictronConnect software. Of course that means I need to figure out a windows PC / dual boot, as I'm a Mac person and VEConfigure doesn't work on anything but windows. Nothing is easy! So I reordered the Mk3-USB dongle (I had returned it, love Amazon), and will try again with a PC and the VEConfigure software. The Victron guys said that the MultiPlus will be generally fine, there is an "equalization" feature that needs to be deactivated and the absorption voltage may need adjusting. I'm not too worried about getting lots of telemetry out of it, I figured with the smart shunt, dual BMS, and all 3 DC-DC chargers (the 2 12/12 and the one 12/24) giving me information, I have a pretty good insight into what's going on... more to come!
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Ian Coverdale
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Joined: 19 June 2019 Location: Travelling Status: Offline Points: 311 |
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Posted: 05 October 2023 at 16:31 |
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Understood.
Also 100% Mac here but have one dual boot Mac for odd bit of software such as VE config. Originally had old 2013 Multiplus 12/1600/70 which with latest firmware for that model was fine for LFP ... had LFP mode in config software. You must have very very old Multiplus if it cannot be updated? Even with Mac dual-boot running VE config, we still needed MK3-USB dongle. Assume that hasn't changed. That size is your alternator BTW. |
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Ian & Andrea
SV Gabrielle (H445) Liveaboards - currently Montenegro. www.facebook.com/sailinggabrielle |
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SimonGH
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Joined: 08 September 2021 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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Posted: 05 October 2023 at 20:13 |
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The boat is a 2014, and i'm almost certain it's the factory install...
The "20" isn't compatible with VictronConnect so that's where I stopped. So once I get that USB dongle and connect to it to my dual boot mac (which i just sorted out) with VEConfigure, I'll see if I can use VEFlash to update the firmware (or at least see what settings are in there). Who knows, it may already have an LFP mode... Will know more this weekend. At least I'm learning a lot. The OP gave me a novel path that I think ultimately is going to work out really well. |
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Mike2145
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Joined: 18 October 2014 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 278 |
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Posted: 06 October 2023 at 09:58 |
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Edit, I made an error here, depending on the type of DC-DC charger for the bow thruster. If the charger doesn't have an engine on function, I think you said it didn't, then just run the supply for it via an ACR. As the existing one is now redundant then you can use this. A bit of an overkill but easy to do This is, in fact what I have now done. 
Edited by Mike2145 - 06 October 2023 at 10:06 |
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Cant take a joke, don't buy a boat.
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SimonGH
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Joined: 08 September 2021 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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Posted: 11 July 2025 at 11:01 |
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So thread bump
I never got around to changing this, because ultimately things were working and I didn't want to spend the time on the boat doing it - rather be sailing! But now I'm motivated, as we are anchoring more, and I've determined if I do it properly I can actually run the AC unit for a limited time from the inverter with the right battery setup & charging capacity. I'm coupling this with a generator & solar panels. I am going to go with the much simpler setup and see if I can either live with the current charger profile for the lithium (through the BMS), or finally figure out if i can update the firmware. So based on some further research - the Orion 12/24 charger for the bow thruster has an "engine on" capability, so I don't need the ACR as far as I can tell. So my biggest question is where do I connect the input from the MPPT solar chargers - was assuming they would go on the battery side of the DC-DC chargers (i.e. direct to the lithium cells)? or do I put them on the alternator side, so that they would theoretically feed the starter battery and bow thruster as well? Is it just preference vs one would work vs the other not? Regarding generators, my plan is to use a propane powered portable unit that just sits on the swim platform when at anchor, and a short "shore power" cord plugs into it directly. So as far as the boat is concerned, it's just connected to shore power... I am actually going to do this soon, as we have a long trip coming up in August and I would really like to use my AC while at anchor... |
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SimonGH
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Joined: 08 September 2021 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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Posted: 07 September 2025 at 16:08 |
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Ok, I did this mod completely. It was extensive & pretty complex, primarily because I decided to engineer and build my own batteries to perfectly fit the space for maximum capacity. If anyone is interested in the design I can post a more detailed description with models etc.
 So I was able to fit 3x 340Ah LiFePo4 batteries in the space, with 2x 12v DC-DC 30Amp chargers and a victron smartshunt. It was tight (see pic) but ultimately all fit. The only thing not shown is the two large 2020 aluminum rails that I put across the tops to hold everything securely. What you can't see is the two massive bus bars i used to connect the battery terminals (they are on the side of the battery near the chargers), with one bar above the other (I staggered the terminals vertically so I could do this). I utilized the separate charging feed for the starter battery from the Victron inverter/charger, and I am happy to report I can pull +150Amp to run the front AC on battery for about 6 hrs. (I installed a soft starter on both AC units, that's another story). My only issue is that the older Victron MultiPlus compact 12/80/2000 doesn't reliably charge the batteries past about 70%. I tried everything, but the processor is the old version and i can't update the firmware to have specific lithium charge profiles. So when it hits the set voltage, it switches to float and doesn't charge beyond that (I can see each battery BMS via an app & bluetooth, so I can see the charge/discharge for each battery). For now, this is ok, since there is so much capacity that even 70% full batteries are fine for most uses, just not running the AC for long periods (not an issue since it really hasn't been very warm at night here). But eventually I would like this to work, but I'm really dreading having to drop another $1500 on a new inverter/charger. I'm wondering if I can add an additional AC-DC battery charger (with LiFePo4 profiles) in the system (even if it's relatively low amperage) just to slowly get the batteries to 80-90% charged... thoughts?  |
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Ian Coverdale
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Joined: 19 June 2019 Location: Travelling Status: Offline Points: 311 |
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Posted: 08 September 2025 at 08:44 |
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Yes, I had to ditch my older 12/800 Multiplus when upgrading to LFP.
For most BMS systems, you really need a 100% charge from time-to-time for the cell balancing to work and to reset the SOC calculation which becomes inaccurate over time. You could look to add a small separate LFP compatible mains charger such as Victron Blue Smart 12/20 charger which can be wired in parallel with the Multiplus and left on all the time when connected to shorepower? Just one other comment ... many DIY systems miss a master 'emergency' battery isolator switch ... I cannot see one in your photo. If you have an electrical fire onboard, being able to kill the battery supply immediately may save your boat.
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Ian & Andrea
SV Gabrielle (H445) Liveaboards - currently Montenegro. www.facebook.com/sailinggabrielle |
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Mike2145 wrote: