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New seacocks/thru-hulls

Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 400
Forum Description: 400 Hints, Tips and News
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10598
Printed Date: 22 September 2023 at 19:07
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Topic: New seacocks/thru-hulls
Posted By: Captain Cook
Subject: New seacocks/thru-hulls
Date Posted: 20 January 2018 at 14:55
The old topic "Seacocks" is already discussed in detail, a search just now gave 100 results. In the old subjects you can find members who stubbornly claims, that at least their seacocks were made of bronze, and then after a test must admit that the yellow material is brass. Hanse werft has maybe not been completely honest with the owners who by telephone have been assured, that the thru-hulls and seacocks were made of bronze.
Later inquiries have earned an answer, that the material was DZR-brass, by some called "marine grade" brass. Brass is made by copper and zink, and the DZR has been added other metals to slow down the detoriation. The DZR was chosen because it is cheaper than bronze or Trudesign. In the pictures below you can see my old thru-hulls, which when replaced after seven years in 2013, still had a pretty good look. Notice the red ring in the yellow brass, where detoriation has started.

.
My old ball-valves marked DN20 (Diametre Nominal), were the type your plumber mounts in your house (plain chrome-plated brass I suppose). Those were in my boat a bit rusty in the handles but otherwise seemed OK.

My decision to change the seacocks came after the horror stories in 2012-13, where several boats from many different shipyards had unwanted fountains in their boats.

The change from DZR to bronze or Trudesign is not that costly, so the Hanse-owners with a 8-12 years old ship should maybe change the seacock/thru-hulls now?
If not, I advise to buy wooden plugs to place near the "fountain-to-be".

This is not an attempt of mouth-to-mouth rescue of the old tread, but basicly an friendly advice
to the owners of old Hanses, which still have not changed their thru-hulls.

Regards Kjeld




-------------
Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)



Replies:
Posted By: StavrosNZ
Date Posted: 21 January 2018 at 21:38
Good move, i replaced all of mine on my 2010 400 a few years back and posted the process on the forum, its real piece of mind to know none of the DZR brass remains below the waterline.

The irony is that Trudesign fittings are cheaper than Brass particularly in the volumes Hanse would buy. Hanse now fit Trudesign skin fittings on all new boats but then fit DZR brass ball valves and tails to these. Hopefully at some stage they will go the whole hog and fit the full synthetic package, i as a prospective buyer would see this very favorably over other brands still using Brass.


-------------
Stephen
2010 H400 #691, Auckland, New Zealand


Posted By: Sea-U
Date Posted: 22 January 2018 at 09:49
I too changed all 2 years ago. I did not like the Trudesign 90 degree bend (in middle of picture). It was of a small inner diameter.
I then bought a stainless steel bend. I have now learned that this was a big mistake. Stainless steel can be worse than brass.
Have just received a bronse 90 degree bend for the black water. Hope I can change... or I might need to buy new seacock too.




-------------
Sea-U is a 370e #532 located SW Norway


Posted By: Captain Cook
Date Posted: 22 January 2018 at 10:41
At the internet you can google hundreds of posts about corrosion of seacocks. The Danish Sailing Association homepage (http://www.sejlsport.dk/baadejer/praktisk-viden/skrog/skroggennemfoeringer/korrosion-i-skroggennemfoeringer) complains about EEC-directive 94/25EC, and links to a report from Piet Jansen, FORCE Technology (published 2004!)in danish. I will summarize some of his conclusions here.

Bronze (CC491-CuSn5Zn5Pb5=85%Cu,5%Sn,5%Pb) is corrosion safe in molded parts.

MS58 Brass (CW612N-CuZn39Pb2=59%Cu,39%Zn,1-2%Pb) is not corrossion safe.
(Prone to de-zinkification, vulnerable to strain-corrosion in salt water).

Special Brass (DNZ) (CW602N-CuZn36Pb2As=62%Cu,36%Zn,2%Pb,<1%As) is fairly corrosion safe.
It is vulnerable to strain corrosion.

Stainless steel AISI304 (A2) is not recommended.

Stainless steel AISI316 (A4) is better than MS58, but in 2-5 years come pitting and fissure corrosion.

Stainless steel SS254 is okay, but very expensive.

Jansen tells that a reddish colour in the yellow brass is a symptom of de-zinkification.

I just now discovered, that 94/25/EC is repealed, and instead as of January 18, 2016 a new directive 2013/53/EU is in force. 65 pages to study for the Hanse owner. I just skimmed the directive for any mention of seacocks, but I found no such thing. 









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Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)


Posted By: iemand
Date Posted: 22 January 2018 at 21:01
   I'm planning to change to true design on my 370 as well. What have you done on the SD50? TD is still missing a double nipple....

-------------
Hanse 312 MJ 2004 - Hanse 370e MJ 2007


Posted By: Sea-U
Date Posted: 22 January 2018 at 21:30
When I changed mine 2 years ago, the piece that is in the hose was totally gone. The hose almost fell of by itself. I was just lucky ... and the boat is from 2008.
The other parts were reddish halfway through.

So iemand !!! You should start to be worried!


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Sea-U is a 370e #532 located SW Norway


Posted By: StavrosNZ
Date Posted: 22 January 2018 at 21:45
yes i did the valve on SD50 as well including glass filled nylon male to male to connect the ball valve to the saildrive. 4 years no problems, see mt earlier posts:

http://www.myhanse.com/sd20-saildrive_topic9673_page2.html



-------------
Stephen
2010 H400 #691, Auckland, New Zealand


Posted By: StavrosNZ
Date Posted: 22 January 2018 at 21:49
used glass filled nylon male to male made by hansen, see www.hansenproducts.co.nz, used Sika 291 on both threads fitted when cold.

-------------
Stephen
2010 H400 #691, Auckland, New Zealand


Posted By: Rubato
Date Posted: 23 January 2018 at 17:53
I know very little about the TruDesign product and the material it is made out of. Is there a greater chance of getting cracking from water freezing in cold weather versus a metal part? The basin where the boat is moored is fed by a fresh water creek making the top layer much much less salty and it freezes easily in the winter.

-------------
Steve

Hanse 400e, #168


Posted By: Captain Cook
Date Posted: 23 January 2018 at 18:24
Nippel in bronze from http://tempobaadudstyr.dk



-------------
Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)


Posted By: StavrosNZ
Date Posted: 23 January 2018 at 20:55
Hi Steve (Rubato) trudesign products are glass (glass fibre) filled nylon. Dont confuse this with skin fitting by Plastimo or others that simply Polypropylene and considerably inferior.

The Trudesign products have European, US, Bureau Veritas and International Marine certification.

I would drop them an email regarding split resistance re: frozen water: http://www.trudesignmarine.com

I have no affiliations with them but love their products.


-------------
Stephen
2010 H400 #691, Auckland, New Zealand


Posted By: seileren1
Date Posted: 23 January 2018 at 22:09
Hi guys,

Last year I had my seacooks changed to trudesign. Of my 11 original sea cocks, one was so coroded that it was an imminent risk of leakage. The others were in various statens of corrosion. The boat is from 2012.

Cheers


Posted By: Rubato
Date Posted: 25 January 2018 at 00:03
Thought I would share my inquiry to TruDesign regarding resistance to cracking due to freezing. Very quick, straight forward and positive reply.....

The question was:

I read about your through-hull fittings on your web site and am finding that a number of fellow Hanse (sailboat) owners are starting to use your products. I understand that the material that you use is not regular plastic but my question is regarding the resistance to cracking due to freezing. We are in a fairly mild climate (Vancouver, Canada) and the boat is in the water all year around. The basin the boat is moored in is fed by a fresh water creek so the top layer of water has very little salt, freezing quite easily if the temperature drops below zero which is a couple of times during winter. Would this be a concern with your product? What is the resistance to cracking from water freezing within them relative to a bronze fitting?

The answer:
Hi Steve

The Composite material our fittings are moulded in is a special polymer with a fibreglass content similar to the std fiberglass hull material.

We have carried out freeze tests on our Composite ball valve assembly to -18 (lowest freezer temperature in NZ) and no problem with cracking.
There is a U Tube clip of one of our freezing tests.
Our largest market for the past 6 years has been the Nordic region where they experience freezing conditions in their winter with no problems.

We have no concerns with cracking due to below temperatures


 


-------------
Steve

Hanse 400e, #168


Posted By: silversailor
Date Posted: 25 January 2018 at 01:12
My Hanse has spent it's life (and continues to spend it's life) in fresh water. Do I need to be concerned about seacocks?  What would those of you who are much more knowledgeable about this topic than me recommend?
Thanks.


-------------
Silversailor
South Haven, MI USA
S/V Legacy
2010 Andrews 28


Posted By: Captain Cook
Date Posted: 25 January 2018 at 10:36
Hello Silversailor
The one to answer this question is yourself!
The problem with brass seacocks, is that currents in the salt water steals the zinc from the brass. And when the brass contains 36-39% zinc, the seacock will look like a swiss cheese, when only the copper is left.
I know for sure, that your saildrive is equipped with an zinc-anode like this

If your anode looks brand-new, and you never had to change it, you have no worries. But if you, (like us sailing in salt water) have to replace it every year (because almost all the material is corroded away), your boat is subject to galvanic corrosion.
The anode is offering easy-to-get electrons, because zinc is high in the reactivity series:

If zink or magnesium is not present, the corrosion will happen in your aluminium-saildrive or in your brass-propeller. (And seacocks/thru-hulls).  (Ouality propellers are made of bronze).
I seem to remember, that many years ago, I saw an article where magnesium-anodes were recommended for sailing in brackish water or lakes.
Corrosion in lakes depends primarily on the amount of salts in the water, but also the currents through the shore-power and from other boats can cause problems. The zink-saver that Hanse nowadays mounts in the boats is connected to the earth-wire of the shorepower. The zink-saver is a condensator, picking up homeless electrons. You also have a smaller condensator in your refrigerator and other electrical equipment. The zink-saver is (maybe) also a help if a lightning strikes the shorepower. In theory it will absorp the first peak of current from the lightning, so your HPFI relay get some milliseconds to trip before all the electronics have melted down.

Back in 2006 when my boat was produced, Hanse included zink-savers for the overseas markets, but we Europeans had to buy it for ourselves.



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Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)


Posted By: silversailor
Date Posted: 26 January 2018 at 01:50
Thanks Captain Cook.  I'll be sure to check my saildrive anode when I get back to my boat in April.  My recollection is that the anode looked very good last time I checked.


-------------
Silversailor
South Haven, MI USA
S/V Legacy
2010 Andrews 28


Posted By: Rubato
Date Posted: 26 January 2018 at 18:16
The metal that your anode is made of should quite likely be different in fresh water than in salt water. I found this a good article....  https://www.boatingmag.com/how-to/choosing-right-sacrificial-anode

So you can see that while zinc can be effective in fresh water it will quite quickly oxidize and stop protecting whereas aluminum won't do that.

Steve


-------------
Steve

Hanse 400e, #168


Posted By: Ratbasher
Date Posted: 25 February 2018 at 13:30
Of course, any seacock is only as good as its fitting. 

On buying my 400 last year the surveyor raved about the Truedesigns that the previous owner had had fitted throughout.  On launch all seemed ok with no obvious leaks but after some hours I did a further check on the lowest part of the bilges which is under the sink and not, as one might have thought, by the bilge pump; lesson No1.  This showed a nice flow of water which caused me to pretty rapidly learn all about the structure of a 400 below the sole boards as they came flying off as nothing was evident from the usual suspect sources.

After further weight-losing activity the shining of a light on the hull behind the seacock cluster in the heads showed what had previously been invisible: a thin but powerful flow of water was fanning out from the seacock bases against the hull.  Lesson No2 was that a leak may not manifest itself as you might expect.   Lesson No3 was that any leak from the Heads flows aft and fills the void space below the aft cabin sole.  This then overflows into successive void spaces along the port side before crossing to stb under the cabin table and then flowing back under the galley sink.  Lesson No4 was the realisation that by the time water reaches the bilge pump there's already a great deal of water onboard.  Of course at sea this may be detected much earlier but not alongside.

On lifting the boat the seacocks were found to be so poorly fitted that when one was tapped to remove it, it went flying out just missing the head of an unfortunate bystander below who was admiring my otherwise lovely new boat.

The final lesson was a reminder that an owner must not rely on the word of another, no matter how highly qualified, for such critical items.  If I hadn't done secondary checks later on and gone ashore, I might have been able to change the duff bulb at the top of the mast that the Surveyor had spotted using just my dinghy.  Caveat Emptor.




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H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard', Gosport UK


Posted By: Rubato
Date Posted: 26 February 2018 at 17:30
Rat
So there was no bedding compound (Caulk) of any kind used? or were they the wrong size?



-------------
Steve

Hanse 400e, #168


Posted By: Ratbasher
Date Posted: 26 February 2018 at 18:40
They were the right size but insufficient bedding compound had been used and the seacocks were not properly tight. Its possible the previous owner hadn’t realised the mistake about the bedding compound and the working of the vessel in a seaway gradually loosened the threads.

I had the seacocks professionally rebedded with locking tape applied to the threads, another Lesson Identified. At least the bilges all got a good clean....

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H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard', Gosport UK


Posted By: blackswan
Date Posted: 25 March 2018 at 00:16
We will be replacing the through hulls and sea cocks on our 2010 400 in a few months, does anyone have a list of sizes for the through hulls? we will do our own count and measuring, before ordering, but it would be good to have a check-list in case we forget one!

Thanks


Posted By: SamsonII
Date Posted: 25 March 2018 at 08:37
Hi,

Did the job on my 370 last summer. This is the parts I used from Trudesign:

Waste:
1,5" throughhull
1,5" 90 degree
1,5" valve
1,5" hose connector for 38 mm hose

Toilett inlet:
3/4" through hull
3/4" 90 degree
3/4" valve
3/4" hose connector for 19mm hose

Shower out:
3/4" through hull
3/4" 90 degree
3/4" valve
3/4" hose connector for 19mm hose

Galley:
1" through hull
1" valve
1" hose connector for 25mm hose

other:
West System Six10 epoxy
Locktite 55 for the threads
Sika 291/Tec7 under the nut on the inside


-------------
Stein-Erik Carlsen

Hanse 370e 2006 #41 "Samson II"


Posted By: blackswan
Date Posted: 25 March 2018 at 12:15
Thank you very much Stein, we'll do our own count soon. Is there one for engine cooling water?


Posted By: Captain Cook
Date Posted: 25 March 2018 at 22:41
In page one of this thread you can see a post from StavrosNZ, where this thread is mentioned:
http://www.myhanse.com/sd20-saildrive_topic9673_page1.html,
Stavros informs, that the ½" nipple (male/male) is not manufactured by Trudesign, (but it's OK to use bronze instead).
I can recommend the "search" -function here on myhanse, new members can find a lot of answers to their questions there.
Trudesign is just one of the topics there, all types of solutions can be found there.

Cook the Captain


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Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)


Posted By: iemand
Date Posted: 28 April 2018 at 19:22
You used the epoxy on the outside? Why not just Sika?

-------------
Hanse 312 MJ 2004 - Hanse 370e MJ 2007


Posted By: toholthe
Date Posted: 26 March 2019 at 22:16
I am planning to change the tru hulls on my Hanse 400 2007 mod to TruDesign. Have anyone gone for the flush skin fittings. Is the hull thick enough without strengthening inside? I will use epoxy for gluing fitting to hull. 

How do I use the router to make a recess for the fitting like on the picture? Any idea?




Posted By: iemand
Date Posted: 27 March 2019 at 20:21
Hello,

a ship yared just changed my thru hull to flush truedesign ones. I have an Epoxy boat and they told me that the laminate was not thick enough. That's why they glued in stiffening rings on the inside. 

The installation looks good now however the boat is still on the hard!

BR Thomas


-------------
Hanse 312 MJ 2004 - Hanse 370e MJ 2007


Posted By: toholthe
Date Posted: 27 March 2019 at 20:32
Ok, I will not go for the flush ones then in fear of being to weak.


Posted By: alb_mo
Date Posted: 17 February 2020 at 13:06
Hello all,
I follow this intereresting forum from 2018 when I bough my H400 2007 but I never partecipate before.
Now I'm in the process to replace my seacocks with Trudesign and reading the post from Stein I had a doubt regarding waste valve.
In my boat is installed a DN32 - 11/4" instead Stein mounted a 1.5"-38mm, that in my view it should be an 11/2" - DN42, quite large to fit my 32mm waste pipe.
Stein, did you have originally fitted the 11/2" or did you replace also the waste pipe or I missing something ?
Captain Cook, which waste valve did you install ?
Many thanks in advance.
Alberto



Posted By: toholthe
Date Posted: 17 February 2020 at 14:02
I just did the same on a H400 2007. It was installed a 1 1/4" on mine as well. I replaced it with a 1 1/2" as this is the standard for waste. I had to make the hole a bit bigger by a manual file. Took only 5 min.
I am quite sure the hose is 38mm, at least mine was. 

I changed hoses. Used this one:  https://www.maritim.no/septikslange-1-1-2-hvit-ce-merket" rel="nofollow - https://www.maritim.no/septikslange-1-1-2-hvit-ce-merket



Posted By: alb_mo
Date Posted: 18 February 2020 at 10:06
Thank you toholthe,
Said that my waste hose is still in good condition, yes one option is to change also the hose and I'm not afraid to enlarge the hull hole, instead I would not open a new window just below the waste tank to have access to the hose connection, how did you replace the hose?.
Nevertheless, if the current waste hose is already 38mm ( and it should be because I read that tank output is 38mm)  I wouldn't have problem to use a 1 1/2" but what look strange to me is that I don't see tapering on the hose connection on my current 1 1/4" (32mm) valve.
Unfortunately I'm not near the boat to take measure.


Posted By: toholthe
Date Posted: 18 February 2020 at 11:59
Hi Alb_mo,

you can have a 1 1/4" valve with a 38mm hose connection. I believe that is what is installed originally.


Posted By: Rock
Date Posted: 14 April 2020 at 07:40
Worried by the horror stories of through hulls and valves breaking apart, I finally replaced them with trudesign. Used a (real) bronze 90 degree for wastewater (inner diameter of trudesign too small).

Just for information, all the low quality std. fittings Hanse had used were still in great shape.
See pictures. No dezincification at all. I actually decide to hit the wastewater set up with a hammer repeatedly to see if it would break/crack, it didn’t, only showed a dent.

2007 400e, in fresh water year around, salt water 2-3 months of the year.

Surely many people had real bad experience, just wanted to balance this by mentioning it’s not all bad everywhere.

I’m happy I did the work, for peace of mind, but with hindsight it wasn’t really necessary.

Regards,
Peter 






-------------
Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241


Posted By: toholthe
Date Posted: 08 November 2020 at 20:48
I would like to change the valve on my SD50 saildrive to TruDesign. Not able to find male to male connector in reinforced plastic here in Norway. Only in NZ, but postage is crazy. Is there problem with using a trudesign thru hull, cut off flange and use the threaded part as male to male connector?

Btw, anyone can confirm dimensions of male to male connector for SD50?


Posted By: 350Bob
Date Posted: 08 November 2020 at 21:38
That is exactly what I did on my SD20, replacing the standard Yanmar gate valve which only lasted a couple of seasons before seizing up. I did it two years ago and had no problems yet!

-------------
H350 #205


Posted By: astarte
Date Posted: 16 November 2020 at 12:55
I have finally changed the cooling water intake to Thru design on my 370 with SD50. There has been numerous post on this, I did it this way: I have not found a male to male connector to go into the SD50. Instead I used a male to female 90 degree connector. I had to cut away approx. half of the threads on each side to be able screw the connector into the SD50. Then I used a brass male to male connector between the bend and the ball valve. The brass connector is an ordinary one that is used for plumbing. According to specifications it should not release zinc, hence less corrosion. I had to remove the ball valve handle when mounting the valve (there is a center screw on the handle). 

-------------
Kristoffer
Hanse 370e #412


Posted By: Captain Cook
Date Posted: 24 February 2021 at 17:12
If you read the post from Rock, it seems that sailors from the fresh water in Ijsselmeer have no problems with corrosion of the thru-hulls.
But if you are sailing in salt water like the most of us, things are different.

HPNielsen DK from Denmark today has posted a picture of the seacock from his holding tank. This photo clearly shows, that if you are sailing in a boat from 2006-2010 with the brass seacocks installed by the Hanse werft, you are gambling with your life as well as with the life of your passengers. The price of Trudesign seacocks for a Hanse 400 is €350. Is your life worth that?


https://www.myhanse.com/new-seacocks-thruhulls_topic10598_page1.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.myhanse.com/new-seacocks-thruhulls_topic10598_page1.html

I changed the seacocks in 2013 when they were 7 years old. Look at the pictures of those seacocks, compared to the seacock in HPs Hanse 400, which is 15 years old.





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Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)


Posted By: Captain Cook
Date Posted: 24 February 2021 at 17:16
This is the list of Trudesign parts for my Hanse 400: (svb.de)

TRUDESIGN - Borddurchführungen, TRUDESIGN - Borddurchführung 3/4"@@@@ (2pcs)
Artnr.: 74010

TRUDESIGN - Borddurchführungen, TRUDESIGN - Borddurchführung 1"@@@@
Artnr.: 74011

TRUDESIGN - Borddurchführungen, TRUDESIGN - Borddurchführung 1 1/2"@@@@
Artnr.: 74013


TRUDESIGN - Kugelhähne, TRUDESIGN - Kugelhahn 3/4"@@@@ (2pcs)

Artnr.: 78026

TRUDESIGN - Kugelhähne, TRUDESIGN - Kugelhahn 1"@@@@
Artnr.: 78027

TRUDESIGN - Kugelhähne, TRUDESIGN - Kugelhahn 1 1/2"@@@@
Artnr.: 78029

TRUDESIGN - Anschlussfittinge, TRUDESIGN - Anschlussfitting gewinkelt 3/4"@@@@ (2pcs)
Artnr.: 74015

TRUDESIGN - Anschlussfittinge, TRUDESIGN - Anschlussfitting gewinkelt 1 1/2"@@@@
Artnr.: 74018


TRUDESIGN - Anschlussfittinge, TRUDESIGN - Anschlussfitting gerade 1"@@@@
Artnr.: 74021

TRUDESIGN - Anschlussfittinge, TRUDESIGN - Anschlussfitting 1 1/2" / 25 mm Schlauch@@@@
Artnr.: 74034

Check this list, there may be errors!


Sikaflex - 291i Marine-Dichtmasse, Sikaflex© - 291i@weiß@1 x 300 ml@@
Artnr.: 16701



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Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)


Posted By: gjspwr
Date Posted: 26 February 2021 at 16:34
Does anyone know what the 2007 Hanse 400 had? Also, any way to test the things, preferably without banging on them?

-------------
GJS

Hanse 400 Exhale


Posted By: toholthe
Date Posted: 26 February 2021 at 16:49
My H400 2007 had:

 Waste:
1,5" throughhull
1,5" 90 degree
1,5" valve
1,5" hose connector for 38 mm hose

Toilett inlet:
3/4" through hull
3/4" 90 degree
3/4" valve
3/4" hose connector for 19mm hose

Shower out:
3/4" through hull
3/4" 90 degree
3/4" valve
3/4" hose connector for 19mm hose

Galley:
1" through hull
1" valve
1" hose connector for 25mm hose

If you originals on a 2007 you should change them. It’s a quick job and gives ease of mind. 


Posted By: Captain Cook
Date Posted: 26 February 2021 at 17:27
Gjspwr: "Does anyone know what the 2007 Hanse 400 had? Also, any way to test the things, preferably without banging on them? "
You do not need to test anything. Look at the photos above. My 7 years old thru-hulls were developing red rings where detoriation had started, but they still had plenty of metal.
Then look at the photo from HPNielsen DK, where 75% of the metal have vanished, and remember, that the thru-hull disintegrated when he was removing it. His boat is from 2006.
As I have written in the warning to ALL Hanse owners: If you are sailing in a boat with the original thru-hulls from 2005-2012, CHANGE THEM NOW. And take another look at the photo above. Do not bang on those things, unless you like the idea of a fountain in your boat.
Do read the posts on pages 1-3 as well.
In another post I mentioned that a set of Trudesign for my boat was $430.
Imagine that your boat sinks because one of the old thru-hulls disintegrate. Further imagine that a person is drowning. And imagine, that the relatives of the deceased are suing you for negligence.
What would that amount to in the US?  ----- A little more than $430 I suspect?
Do yourself and your family a great favor, and change them soonest! 
:Kjeld


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Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)


Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 26 February 2021 at 19:34
Last spring we changed to Trudesign on our Hanse 370 2008.
The truhulls looked ok but had like Cpt Cook also saw a redish tan 0.5mm into the sides when cut open.
So maybe there would have been some years left.
But I believe it also could depend on how much the shore power and the waterheater is used.
We don't use the water heater much and also have a sterling galvanic isolator.
But now we don't need to worry anymore, that alone makes the upgrade to Trudesign a nobrainer.




-------------
Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin


Posted By: HPNielsen DK
Date Posted: 02 March 2021 at 11:22
I have just changed the valve on my sd50 to thudesign using a 1” trough hull fitting where I cut off the flange. The only difficulty in the process was to clean the old thread in the SD50. I was lucky to be able to borrow a 1 “ thread cutter that did the trick. 



Posted By: Borjebus
Date Posted: 01 April 2021 at 10:48
I am about to replace my thruhull fitting and valves, and at the moment I will go for true bronze stuff.
Talking to the specialists I realize a problem with the Hanse design - Some of the valves are not directly connected to the thruhull fittings,  but with a 90 degree turn in between. This is absolutely not recommended the specialists claim.
Is it possible to do a "correct" installation in the toilet locker?
Any suggestions appreciated.


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BÄSK, Hanse 370e #82 from 2006, Yanmar 3JH4E/SD50, 3-blade Flexofold, RMC(Lewmar) 185 Bowthruster, Vulcan 9, Simrad+B&G instruments


Posted By: Captain Cook
Date Posted: 01 April 2021 at 17:07
A wise man and a specialist is not necessarily the same person. A 90 degree direction change  in a liquid flow is not recommended, but to redirect the brown goo through the hull, it is the most convenient solution. In my H400 I had the brass fitting for 7 years, and thereafter the Trudesign for another 7 years, and I have not had any problem with the 90 degree fittings. The Trudesign ball valve has been criticized in myhanse for having a small bypass opening, but I experience no difference.
In our boats the (mostly) liquid waste is leaving a higher position (potential energy), and thereby will try to get a velocity of 9,82 m/sec2 in the first second of downward motion. The fast flow will work against any clogging in the bend. The claim of the specialist may be true for very big ships with slow moving waste, though.
If you are worried, try the search function here, but I do not remember any posts from members complaining of the 90 deg. angle.
Maybe if you are throwing toilet paper and sanitary napkins in the toilet there is a problem, but I assume that you have owned your boat since 2013, so you may tell me, if you ever had a clogging in the 90 degrees bend?
:Kjeld


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Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)


Posted By: Borjebus
Date Posted: 01 April 2021 at 17:31
Many thanks Kjeld,
No, we haven't had any clogging problems in the piping but the reasons for having the valve directly to the thruhull fitting should be (according to the "specialist"):
- If the 90 degree piece fails you can shut-off with the valve
- While the boat is on the dry you are able to inspect and glue the ball valve from outside
My wife agrees to less "space" in the cabinet, but my fear is that an installation with valve directly to the thruhull fitting will not have space enough.

/Börje


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BÄSK, Hanse 370e #82 from 2006, Yanmar 3JH4E/SD50, 3-blade Flexofold, RMC(Lewmar) 185 Bowthruster, Vulcan 9, Simrad+B&G instruments


Posted By: HPNielsen DK
Date Posted: 01 April 2021 at 17:51
According to trudesign the certification for below waterline applications only apply for direct  connection between skinfitting and seacock. I believe its a matter of  being able to withstand physical force. I myself have used the 90 degree elbow as well because thats the only way to install it in the H400. The seacocks under the zink are very well protected from any external force. 



Posted By: H64
Date Posted: 25 May 2021 at 13:30
Hi 
I have a Hanse 430 from 2008 and also have the job ahead of me to replace the original seacocks/thru-hulls.
Still on land a few more days I would like to start replacing the seacock mounted on the SD50. Can anyone let me know the threading specification into the SD50 body and the article number for the suggested trudesign product?
Many thanks in advance!

Best regards
Patrik


Posted By: Borjebus
Date Posted: 25 May 2021 at 13:59
The SD50 valve is 1". I used a bronze male/male and a bronze ball-valve.
You might need a 1" thread cutter to clean the threads before putting the new stuff in.
/Börje


-------------
BÄSK, Hanse 370e #82 from 2006, Yanmar 3JH4E/SD50, 3-blade Flexofold, RMC(Lewmar) 185 Bowthruster, Vulcan 9, Simrad+B&G instruments


Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 25 May 2021 at 14:03
Hi Patrik

It looks like the SD50 saildrive has 1" thread female (and SD20 1/2" https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9673&KW=Maestrini+DZR&PID=85814&title=sd20-saildrive#85814" rel="nofollow - https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9673&KW=Maestrini+DZR&PID=85814&title=sd20-saildrive#85814 ).
I have searched a lot and can't find a TruDesign HEX nipple male to male.
On the forum StavrozNZ has then used a composite hex nipple from hansenproducts.:
https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10598&KW=hansenproduct&PID=88971&title=new-seacocks-thruhulls#88971" rel="nofollow - https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10598&KW=hansenproduct&PID=88971&title=new-seacocks-thruhulls#88971
and
https://www.hansenproducts.co.nz/products/thread/SHN.htm" rel="nofollow - https://www.hansenproducts.co.nz/products/thread/SHN.htm

But looking away from Hansen is a scandinavian name...Hansenproducts is native New Zealand product and there are no real distributors in Europe. They mention Isiflo in Norway, but they make their own composite fittings and they are only rated for 40 degrees Celsius.

Others have cut off the flange of a tru-hull and stuck it in the hole in the engine...
https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8221&KW=flange&PID=104738&title=raw-water-inlet-stopcock#104738" rel="nofollow - https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8221&KW=flange&PID=104738&title=raw-water-inlet-stopcock#104738

Updated 27. may
The SD20 is perhaps not 1/2 thread!
Trudesign has informed me that the Threads in the sail-drive are Tapered (BSPT) and not straight/parallel (BSP).




-------------
Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin


Posted By: Borjebus
Date Posted: 25 May 2021 at 14:15
Bronze equipment can be found on  http://www.italnordic.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.italnordic.se  and the things we need is not that expensive. For some reason I believe most of the products are made in Italy.

-------------
BÄSK, Hanse 370e #82 from 2006, Yanmar 3JH4E/SD50, 3-blade Flexofold, RMC(Lewmar) 185 Bowthruster, Vulcan 9, Simrad+B&G instruments


Posted By: AllIn
Date Posted: 31 January 2022 at 11:57
Today I started replacing the seacocks on my 2006 Hanse 400e. The hose connection from the toilet just crumbled. Confused I'm really glad I decided to do the exchange this winter Smile


Posted By: Big Al
Date Posted: 31 January 2022 at 15:47
Based on the information shared on this thread I am also in the process of replacing all thru Hulls on my 2009 Hanse 370e.  Based on the recommendations on this forum I have gone for True design thru hulls. True Design suggest that the Ball valve should be directly fitted to the thru hull fitting however I notice on my boat there is a male to female 90 degree connector fitted directly to thru hull and then the ball valve is fitted to 90 degree connector. 

I would welcome other members opinions on this. Will fitting the 90 degree connector directly to thru hull be cause for concern. 

Regards

Alan


-------------
"Vohirana" Hanse 370E Hull Number 55


Posted By: Lykke
Date Posted: 31 January 2022 at 18:52
Hi, if space allows, I will recommend having the valve straight on the thru hull and a 120 degree bend after it.
This gave me both shorter hoses and less restriction inside the hoses:




-------------
Lykke, Hanse 430e, #8 from 2007


Posted By: Borjebus
Date Posted: 31 January 2022 at 21:44
If this fits well in the cabinet it looks great! Had I known about this before I would have done the same with my bronze equipment. Valve directly to the skin fitting - 100% the best!
You Norwegians are better plummers than Handball players Tongue


-------------
BÄSK, Hanse 370e #82 from 2006, Yanmar 3JH4E/SD50, 3-blade Flexofold, RMC(Lewmar) 185 Bowthruster, Vulcan 9, Simrad+B&G instruments


Posted By: Ggerrit
Date Posted: 02 February 2022 at 16:50
Looks nice,
But the brand of  the bended hose tubes is not the same as the valves I suppose.
Which brand did you use ?
Gerard


-------------
H400 2008 2 cabin


Posted By: Yeoey
Date Posted: 02 February 2022 at 21:25
greetings all
If I may add my tuppence to the excellent advice and information here, the inspection of any critical boat component should never be based on periods of YEARS - it is the environment, use and climate that creates variables -inspection periods should be based with due consideration to the afore mentioned things.

I also sail every week on my race boat and do physical checks of key components every few months but with our Hanse which is used like a caravan and never raced I prioritize critical items differently-in the interest of relativity to this thread it is the environment that has greatest impact on the failure of the metal fittings.

Eg if you are in the northern hemisphere there is every good chance that your boat spends periods time winterised, on the hard, and lesser time in the water or if your waters have higher or lower levels of salt concentration than the urine in the toilet lines reacts differently in the chemical process of the metal breakdown. Our boat is immersed all year round in sea waters.

When I replaced mine at around 5 1/2, years the worst was  the cabin toilet and crumbled when the plastic hose was being removed but the seldom used front berth toilet was much better - it is seldom used.

The only valve that I did not replace with Trudesign was that on the sail drive - it was inspected and was sound but had it replaced with a bronze fitting.

Reference to Trudesign website provided technical information that allayed all my concerns in use of a non metal based valve system plus one of my earlier yachts I owned some 39 years back still has the then a little used but radical radical “non metal” fittings installed - I think they were Marlon brand but only a guess.

Peter 






-------------
Peter
Sea Rambler 415 # 137


Posted By: Dogscout
Date Posted: 03 February 2022 at 02:38
I want to ask you all for some advice.  I own a 2007 430e.  I bought the boat in 2019 and I was given reciepts that show that the seacocks were replaced in 2017.  I have no reason to doubt that they were changed.  The handles of all my seacocks are not the red stamped steel ones in the pictures of the failing units, but are the flat steel typically seen on ball valves.  So my seacocks have been replaced with hopefully something that is made of the proper material, but I'm not certain that they were.  This year I will change to Trudesign but I want to ask about the thru-hulls.  From my observation the thru-hulls on my boat are bronze.  

While I could be prudent and replace both the thru-hulls and seacocks at the same time, is it necessary to replace the bronze thru-hulls?  Have you seen failures in the Thru-hulls?


-------------
Adventure awaits


Posted By: Captain Cook
Date Posted: 03 February 2022 at 16:46
If you are absolutely convinced that the thru-hulls are made of bronze, they would not need to be replaced. But since this matter could be the difference between life and death, I would buy the Trudesign thru-hulls anyway. The ball valves are a bit expensive, but the thru-hulls are relatively cheap. I sail in places with medium to low saltpercentage in the water, but my thru-hulls were corroded anyway. If you read all posts in this thread, you will discover a boat sailing in fresh water in Holland with no corrosion at all, while two other posts mentions the thru-hulls falling apart when they were dismounted.
I replaced the seacocks with Trudesign in 2013, and until now I have no problems.
I sold my old Maxi back in 2005, with seacocks of bronze 28 years old. The new owner still has the old seacocks fitted on the boat, now 43 years old, and  still going strong. His old Volvo engine is also still working.


-------------
Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)


Posted By: Lykke
Date Posted: 03 February 2022 at 22:12
The 120 degree bend I used, are made by Trudesign. But these are not sold at every place that sells the valves.


I bought mine here:  https://www.maritim.no/trudesign-slangestuss-120-" rel="nofollow - https://www.maritim.no/trudesign-slangestuss-120-



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Lykke, Hanse 430e, #8 from 2007


Posted By: fiore
Date Posted: 14 February 2022 at 12:03
Ciao, I have to do the same job and I have to order Trudesign sea cocks. I have a Hanse 400 from 2010 have you found the estte dimensions? Thank you Fiorenzo


Posted By: Yeoey
Date Posted: 14 February 2022 at 19:07
Hi and greetings frm Australia,

Sorry can’t help with dimensions- when the job was done the fellow who did it just measured existing  fittings and ordered them from chandlery - May I suggest that you check Trudesign website for guidance and specifications and email them direct fir their thoughts if you need professional guidance. 

Peter 


-------------
Peter
Sea Rambler 415 # 137


Posted By: DJgun
Date Posted: 15 February 2022 at 10:55

The list of Trudesign fittings required to replace all the thru hulls is as follows. this was prepared by someone in a the forum. It is correct gfor my 2007 build 400e, but I ca not say if it is correct for 2010 build.

Black Waste:
1,5" throughhull
1,5" 90 degree
1,5" valve
1,5" hose connector for 38 mm hose

Toilet inlet:
3/4" through hull
3/4" 90 degree
3/4" valve
3/4" hose connector for 19mm hose


Shower out:
3/4" through hull
3/4" 90 degree
3/4" valve
3/4" hose connector for 19mm hose

Galley:
1" through hull
1" valve
1" hose connector for 25mm hose


-------------
DJ Sailor Ordinaire
HIN DE-HANJ0331J708


Posted By: landlocked
Date Posted: 30 March 2023 at 18:03
Adding to this long thread on H400 seacocks:    I replaced seven seacocks this month on my 2006 H400e, after seeing some of the problems on similar boats.  I didn't find any obvious issues with the old fittings except for one:   the forward holding tank outlet hose easily fell off the seacock when I started to remove it.   From the photo you can see that the corrosion is on the part that adapts the seacock threaded connection to a barbed connection for the hose.   I don't know what this part is made of but clearly it was not up to the task.  I didn't do any detailed inspection of the rest of the parts, so can't say for sure that they were all ok.   If anyone is still wondering about these parts it may be worth checking this hose adaptor as it appears to me to be the weak link.

Another note:   Hanse had bonded all the aft head fittings and the galley sink fittings but none of the forward head fittings.   I thought they were all bonded but only discovered this when taking the old ones out.   This is probably why my forward holding tank fitting was on the brink of disaster while the aft one was ok.



Thanks to all for the information about True-design, which is what I chose for replacements.  It was very helpful to have part numbers and photos from others who had made this change.


-------------
"Kerkyra" 400e #042


Posted By: Ratbasher
Date Posted: 31 March 2023 at 12:37
Owen - valuable post; thanks.  After my own scare detailed earlier in this thread I've added checking the hose fittings to my regular maintenance schedule, the same as basic rigging checks before each departure.  While people quite understandably focus on the valves themselves, the constant working of a boat at sea can loosen the fittings which are just as critical to watertight integrity.  

On a previous boat I had a metal raw water pipe sheer right through from the constant vibration. First I knew of it was my son yelling that there was a foot of water in the cabin; as we were in the Cairnbaan lock on the Crinan Canal under the gaze of hordes of tourists then at least this would have been a more entertaining place in which to sink. 

I'm now fanatical about shutting all hull valves when leaving the boat for more than a short time.  However, if something is easy to do then we tend to do it, and vice versa.  I was always bad at shutting the engine valve as it was a right PITA with that wretched gate valve.  Since I fitted a ball valve its much easier so it gets done.  Most times.  





-------------
H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard', Gosport UK


Posted By: Nelson01
Date Posted: 28 June 2023 at 19:14
Hi to all 

Can someone confirm that the skin fittings(trough hull ) installed at factory are BSP and not NSP?

I am in process to order true design fittings but want to ensure proper thread.


Thanks


Marc


-------------
Marc

H508#11 UNEVIE


Posted By: Wild
Date Posted: 28 June 2023 at 23:07
Yes
Hanse used BSP tru hull fittings.


-------------
Wild and Wet
Belgium
545e#268


Posted By: Captain Cook
Date Posted: 04 July 2023 at 15:12
Just re-reading my old thread, I find that Borjebus is recommending (may 2021) to use a thread-cutter to facilitate the mounting of a 1" nipple between SD50 and a ball valve.
This is not wise, because as H8jer remarks on the same page, Yanmar has made it difficult for the users by making the thread BSPT (British Standard Pipe Tapered), while the ball valve is BSP. Luckily it is possible to buy a nipple BSP/BSPT. I purchased one in SS.


-------------
Freya H400 #27 (2006), 40HP 3JH4E, 2-cabin, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)


Posted By: DJgun
Date Posted: 13 August 2023 at 09:18
If you have a BSP nipple, it is normally tapered.   If a male part has BSPP it is a face sealing type, not thread sealing, and has no place on these boats.  In Germany their designation for ports (female)) and male is different (more explicit).

You can always fit a BSP tapered male into a BSPT or a BSPP female port and it will seal, and thread sealant is recommended, but essential on boats.

The best seal is male BSP taper into BSPT female port.

With TruDesign you should not be using BSPP male parts anywhere.  A BSP nipple, tapered both ends is the correct nipple.

Cheers
DJ



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