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Condensation/Moist in forward cabin

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Category: Hints & Tips
Forum Name: 320
Forum Description: 320 Hints and Tips
URL: https://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2382
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Topic: Condensation/Moist in forward cabin
Posted By: LaVida
Subject: Condensation/Moist in forward cabin
Date Posted: 18 August 2008 at 20:45
Hi, we have a problem with condensation/moisture (don´t know the correct word) in our forward cabin. I guess this depends on the fact that the big watertank is placed under the bed. Even though we air it as much as we can we already got mold in the interior.. Does anyone else have this problem and does anyone have any suggestion to how to increase the airflow or in some other way get rid of the condensation/moisture??
 
Best regards,
 
// Johan


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-----------------
Johan
fd, S/Y La Vida
Hanse 320#035



Replies:
Posted By: Peter-Blake
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 14:41
Do you mean the condensation under the matrasses (there you will find diffrent threads about here in this forum for example this one: http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1598 - http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1598  I used the ikea solution.... works very well), or what do you mean?

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Blake 370


Posted By: Stella*Nova
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 15:15
We also used the IKEA product and we are happy and everything is dry.

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BR Ralf, Ex. 'a mare' H370


Posted By: Yemanja
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 19:19
I can confirm this. In the short time we had between delivery of the Yemanja and our holiday my husband installed the Ikea solution. After 3,5 weeks everything was dry and the comfort is ok. Perhaps we also buy a top at Ikea to make things a litter "softer". (we bought a lot more from Ikea for the boat, they have all sorts of "handy stuff")

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Hanse 320 #151


Posted By: LaVida
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 20:28
Thanx, then we will also try the "Ikea solution".. You´ve been a big help!
 
Best regards,
 
// Johan


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-----------------
Johan
fd, S/Y La Vida
Hanse 320#035


Posted By: Gregor
Date Posted: 11 November 2008 at 18:41


Just made a few holes
For extra ventilation, also added a few ventilation holes:



Gregor

-------------
Uisge Beatha

Currently sailing Dehler 36 JV (2002)
Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80

http://www.uisge-beatha.eu" rel="nofollow - http://www.uisge-beatha.eu


Posted By: Gregor
Date Posted: 14 December 2008 at 17:09
I bought Dry-Mat in the UK to put between the wood and mattress.

http://shipshapebedding.co.uk - Dry-Mat

Gregor

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Uisge Beatha

Currently sailing Dehler 36 JV (2002)
Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80

http://www.uisge-beatha.eu" rel="nofollow - http://www.uisge-beatha.eu


Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 06 March 2014 at 15:12
Originally posted by Gregor Gregor wrote:

I bought Dry-Mat in the UK to put between the wood and mattress.



http://shipshapebedding.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Dry-Mat



Gregor


Gregor, are you still happy with the Dry-Mat? Will it work without the holes underneath, do you think?

Johan

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http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se


Posted By: Martin&Rene
Date Posted: 06 March 2014 at 17:32
We first installed the Dry-Mat type product and did not find it over good. I think we did not help matters, as we had cut it to size (like the photos) and I think you really need it to have exposed edges, so that you get some airflow.
 
WE got an alternative from the Largs Chandlers.  I think the product we now use is
 
http://www.hyperventmarine.com/products.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.hyperventmarine.com/products.html
 
This is thicker and does not look as nice, but it seems to do the job.  We use it in the back cabins and have not cut it so size, so it sticks up above the mattress down the side and along the bottom of the bed.  After a week, we will find some moisture on the fibreglass base of the bed and the bottom layer of the Hypervent will feel moist.  However, the top of the Hypervent will be dry, as is the mattress.
 
I am actually thinking of putting some insulating foam on the underside of the fibreglass base of the bed, (ie in the lockers) to see if this will eliminate the cold spots on which the moisture forms.


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Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout, normally based in Scotland


Posted By: CharlesP
Date Posted: 06 March 2014 at 22:25
In the forward cabin, the underside of our mattress cushion becomes damp. We control this by placing a large fender under it during the day. Occasionally, we put these cushions in the open cockpit for an hour.
This regime has worked for us during several months of living aboard each year.

The void under the bunk suffers condensation because of the water tank. It's difficult to deal with this, because the solution would be to lag the tank. All we can do is wipe the tank and open the various covers whenever convenient to allow air circulation.

I installed a vent in the hatch to give some air circulation and we keep the cabin door open.

Charles

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'MERIDIAN LADY'

320 Nr 536 2010

Medway


Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 06 March 2014 at 22:29
I agree that whatever material you use, it should stick up around the edges. The mat you linked to looks interesting but they the company does not seem to ship to Europe.

I have not regarded condensation as a problem before even if I have spent around a hundred nights aboard a year, but as I now live full-time aboard I have abruptly become aware of the fact that, especially during the winter, there will be a lot of condensation under the mattresses. I have the same problem in some of the cupboards as well. The difference in temperature between the heated cabin and the temperature of the inside of the hull can be thirty degrees Celsius and this will create a lot of moisture. In the fore cabin this has resulted in black stains where the mahogany inner liner meets the mattress.

One of my daughter's princess dresses has also got some black stains on it.

Johan

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http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se


Posted By: CharlesP
Date Posted: 06 March 2014 at 23:05
To combat condensation to the hull inside a cupboard, perhaps a warm surface could be stuck to it, such as a thin polystyrene wallpaper or thin layer of foam.

Charles

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'MERIDIAN LADY'

320 Nr 536 2010

Medway


Posted By: alidal
Date Posted: 07 March 2014 at 06:57
Airmax....  http://www.finn.no/finn/torget/annonse?finnkode=14709617&searchQuery=airmax" rel="nofollow - http://www.finn.no/finn/torget/annonse?finnkode=14709617&searchQuery=airmax

(Norway)


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Hanse 400#655


Posted By: JohnA
Date Posted: 10 March 2014 at 13:00
Hi,

 As other contributors have said, the use of Dry-Mat is a good solution. I have used it over the past four years with excellent results.

 However, if there is an underlying cause of moisture in the cabin, it needs to be addressed. Personally I do not think that the water tank is a problem (unless it is leaking), also remember that the fuel tank is below the forward cabin mattress. I don't see the point of drilling holes in the base boards. During the winter period when it is very cold and the boat is not used and most likely is on the hard standing, the damp atmosphere and lack of air circulation will encourage such problems. I would recommend a good quality dehumidifier in the main saloon area, cabin doors open and the bunk mattresses raised so that air can circulate beneath the mattress.

 This strategy should help.

Regards,

John


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Hanse 320 #464 'Discovery'


Posted By: Peter-Blake
Date Posted: 10 March 2014 at 16:18
As our admiral of the fleet Johan rerased this thread i would like to anser to his specific situation.

Johan is living most of his time on board.
Yachtbeds are normally not build for this purpose. Espeacially in a cold area like his hometown.
Therefore it is extremly neccecary to lift the matrasses some cm from the underground.

Our boats are not isolated! The isolation is only your matrass.

This drymat cannot give enough room for the air to circulate. This is only a solution for "weekenders".....And in wintertime i would lift the matrass every day even as a weekender!

In my opinion you need minimum 4-5cm distance between bottom and matrass. And you need it all around. The air must circulate all the time. That means, you also need to reduce the size of the matrasse so that the air can flow on the sides.

I know this sound crazy but that is the only way to reduce the risk of mold.
The black stains you metnioned are possibly already black mold!
This can be dangerous for your health! Mold starts to build in not visible areas. Later it shows up in more visible areas. It is very important to remove all the mold. If not it will be more and more visible and dangerous! At sometime you will be able to smell it. Than it will be definatly to late! Than you have to take your boat apart.

BTW @ Johan: Mold first attacs your lung. And as far as i know you are a very good singer, i still have your cd and sometime listen to it!! Make sure you do not loose your voice! that is your capital.


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Blake 370


Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 11 March 2014 at 08:11
P-B, now you made me worried. If condensation alone can create mold the bunks will not be the only problem. There is condensation everywhere between the hull and the inner lining every time you put the heater on.

Is there any such thing as a condensation free boat?

I am glad you like my music. I hope my lungs will survive so I can continue to sing.

Johan

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http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se


Posted By: Gregor
Date Posted: 11 March 2014 at 16:46
An Etap is condensation free, more or less. It has foam put on the hull.

Gregor

-------------
Uisge Beatha

Currently sailing Dehler 36 JV (2002)
Previous boat: Hanse 311 #80

http://www.uisge-beatha.eu" rel="nofollow - http://www.uisge-beatha.eu


Posted By: Henrik84
Date Posted: 11 March 2014 at 19:36
I use a dehumidifier on 220V.
Always dry boat and nothing under the matress.
Has worked for several years now.

//Henrik

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S/Y LaRey
Hanse 320 #430
Gothenburg, Sweden


Posted By: Johan Hackman
Date Posted: 11 March 2014 at 21:20
I have always regarded my boat as well insulated and condensation free, but I guess I am putting her to the test now.

Those who have followed my posts know that I have lived aboard my boat during weekends etc throughout the winters since I bought her but living aboard full time is an altogether different thing. I will get back with more information.

Johan

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http://www.johanhackman.se" rel="nofollow - http://www.johanhackman.se


Posted By: Willem3
Date Posted: 17 March 2014 at 22:43
Ventilation is a weakness of the Hanse 320. I mounted two vents with solar panels (Nicro day and night) on both hatches and I am very satisfied. No more moist in the cabin. One of them pulls, the other one pushes.
In the rear under the matrass I use a clicksystem (don't remember the brand now) witch gives space between bottom and matrass and works fine.

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Regards, Wim

Hanse 320#405   White hull, wheelsteering, shallow keel, standard North sails, Sparcraft rig, bowthruster

Miss Marple


Posted By: samuel
Date Posted: 18 March 2014 at 05:38
Originally posted by Willem3 Willem3 wrote:

Ventilation is a weakness of the Hanse 320. I mounted two vents with solar panels (Nicro day and night) on both hatches and I am very satisfied. No more moist in the cabin. One of them pulls, the other one pushes.
In the rear under the matrass I use a clicksystem (don't remember the brand now) witch gives space between bottom and matrass and works fine.


Assuming the 320 has lockers under the bunks can you tell me how easy it is to get to the lids with the click system as I understood it is assembled into one homogenous section. If one uses joined up bed slats from ,say, Ikea one cannot access lockers without a lot of hassle ;although, the bed slat option is cheap & would probably work OK


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Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex


Posted By: Willem3
Date Posted: 20 March 2014 at 22:22
The fuel tank and fuel filter is under the bed as is some wiring. It's not very easy to rapidly access, true. But not very often necessairy too. At the end of the season the (original) matrass is stored upright in the cabin, the clicksystem is easyly folded in two for our mechanic for servicing.

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Regards, Wim

Hanse 320#405   White hull, wheelsteering, shallow keel, standard North sails, Sparcraft rig, bowthruster

Miss Marple


Posted By: White Lines
Date Posted: 21 March 2014 at 13:23
I bought  an air dryer on line from a company in Netherlands which has a European style two pin plug , so fits straight into the Hanse, and when I leave the the roof hatch cracked open a touch to ensure that the heated air has a place to escape and (touch wood) have never had a problem since. The Lewmay hatch is designed to be cracked open a small bit without letting rain water in. There has been no water coming in even with the very, very wet winter we have just had and down below no damp, no mildew, no mould.




And this is waht it looks like in operation.

I really cant reccomend this product enough. I think it cost about £70 including taxes.




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Hanse 320 #154 GBR7888L


Posted By: Willem3
Date Posted: 22 March 2014 at 07:30
Nice solution. Many owners of berths however, like mine, don't allow constant connection to the 220V net when not on board.

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Regards, Wim

Hanse 320#405   White hull, wheelsteering, shallow keel, standard North sails, Sparcraft rig, bowthruster

Miss Marple


Posted By: holby
Date Posted: 24 March 2014 at 09:21
here is a link to a website regarding the health problems associated with black mould......

http://blackmold.awardspace.com/black-mold-toxic-stachybotrys-mycotoxins.html

There are many and varied symptoms but the symptoms mentioned first are;-
•Mental and neurological symptoms
•Respiratory symptoms

So I use a Meaco DD 8L Junior, it has a mould spore filter, and uses upto 80% less power than other makes... Won the best buy by the Sailing Today Magazine. it is fairly small, and can either use its water container or use continuous discharge feed... it is very quiet and very efficient...... it is one of the few on the market that can be used with a mains timer and if power is lost it does not need resetting when it is restored... My dampness during wintger months is gone.... and during the summer, it is small enough to store away on board to plug in when you have mains power or if you have a generator when needed.
This has stopped the dreaded black mould and the Mental and neurological problems associated with this mould.
Dave


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Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)


Posted By: Willem3
Date Posted: 11 May 2014 at 16:36
Following my previous posts on thi subject some photos of my ventilation-efforts.

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Regards, Wim

Hanse 320#405   White hull, wheelsteering, shallow keel, standard North sails, Sparcraft rig, bowthruster

Miss Marple


Posted By: Willem3
Date Posted: 11 May 2014 at 16:38


-------------
Regards, Wim

Hanse 320#405   White hull, wheelsteering, shallow keel, standard North sails, Sparcraft rig, bowthruster

Miss Marple


Posted By: Willem3
Date Posted: 11 May 2014 at 16:43










-------------
Regards, Wim

Hanse 320#405   White hull, wheelsteering, shallow keel, standard North sails, Sparcraft rig, bowthruster

Miss Marple


Posted By: Martin&Rene
Date Posted: 02 September 2014 at 21:14

Most of the previous entries had tackled the problem of condensation from the aspect of

"How to minimise the humidity below the mattress, so that condensation does not occur."

As mentioned in my earlier entry, we mainly use HyperVent and having looked at the relative performance over this year, we definitely think that it performs better than the Dry-Mat type of product.

 

We sail in Scotland where the seawater temperature varies between 9ºC & 14ºC.  During the night, I think the area under the bed bases is likely to be close to these temperatures and therefore I started to look at the problem from the viewpoint;

"How to keep the temperature of the underneath the mattresses high enough so that condensation does not occur."

 

I have started to stick pieces of

"Recticel Eurothane GP Insulation 2400 x 1200 x 25mm from Jewsons, the builders merchant"

on the underside of the hatch covers in the bed bases and underneath the other fibreglass sections of the bed base.  Though I am only part way through the process, this insulation certainly seems to be having an effect, as where there is insulation, there is no condnsation, whilst the uninsulated parts have showed some condensation.  Above the water tank, I may have to use a slighly thinner sheet.

 

Points to remember

You can cut it cleanly with a good sharp knife that needs to be resharpened fairly frequently.

You can just strip off the aluminium on the side where you want to put the glue.

On the hatch covers, remember to cout out sections so you can still use the finger holes.

Do not use above the battety box cover. 



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Martin&Rene Hanse 341 Dipper Wheel steering, 3 cabin layout, normally based in Scotland


Posted By: holby
Date Posted: 03 September 2014 at 09:26
Martin & Rene.
You seem to come up with good ideas. I will look, I think insulating inside my lockers under the beds... My Jewsons is just around the corner from me. First this idea and then the blocks on the toilet seat.
 
I hear often from many people  that if you vent your boat well it will stay free from damp even during the winter... I find this hard to believe and will continue with using my Dehumidifier... It is fantasticand keeps the boat free from damp even in the winter....
The only time I get a wee bit of dampness is when I have slept and the under side of the mattress is damp. this soon goes when I prop it up and the dehumidifeier is on. But it would be good to reduce this dampness when I am not able to run the dehumidifier.
 
I think Henrik has also got the same dehumidifier as me now.... It had won best unit for Boats in many magazines, etc.  


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Hanse 301, tiller steering, Volvo 2010 (10hp)



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