Racing 470 or 461

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   Richard,

Hmmm... interesting comparison and one that is important to me as well. I suppose also an observation you could only have made after having laid down in both yachts.

Thanks for sharing that tidbit of info.

Yes, I have seen the carbon rig on "Spirit of GLR". Looks nice and performance is going to be pretty amazing I would think.

Bill

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Singapore Bill Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Lieutenant Joined: 06 March 2007 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 24	Post Options Post Reply Quote Singapore Bill Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 March 2007 at 21:57
	Richard, Hmmm... interesting comparison and one that is important to me as well. I suppose also an observation you could only have made after having laid down in both yachts. Thanks for sharing that tidbit of info. Yes, I have seen the carbon rig on "Spirit of GLR". Looks nice and performance is going to be pretty amazing I would think. Bill

Brad McMaster Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commadore Joined: 27 September 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 383	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brad McMaster Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 March 2007 at 08:54
	Hi Guys, Sorry i have been out of it for a bit. Couple of key changes in my life and the delivery of a new 470!! She truely is a special yacht. Out of interest once i get my feet back on the ground i can help out with photos, advice etc have just taken deliviery and also on the IRC rating. Ours is due anyday now. Interesting to read that a 461 got 1.08, that is the first i had heard and is encouraging!! Anyways, please ask anything of me and i'll try to help but also keep an eye out and prehaps v early next week i can post a link to a gallery of pics as required. Brad
	GHOST - Hanse 470e - 058 http://www.sailblogs.com/member/ghost/

Singapore Bill Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Lieutenant Joined: 06 March 2007 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 24	Post Options Post Reply Quote Singapore Bill Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 March 2007 at 15:21
	Thanks Brad - really appreciate it. A posted scan of the IRC certificate would be very helpful (save any of us having to ask/pay RORC for a copy). I have just received a test cert for a BeneFirst50 and it rated 1.162 (with a spin sa of 173sq m - French test cert but RORC issued). I have not dug into the translation but I suspect this is with the tin rig. HSA is 71.23 sq m. I know the comparison is not valid (length, displ, sa etc) but I can't help compare the two as this is where I am decision-wise on my purchase process. So those who are questioning this can just grin and bear it I hope. Thanks. I love the IRC discussion... Bill

Brad McMaster Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commadore Joined: 27 September 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 383	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brad McMaster Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 March 2007 at 15:49
	Hi Bill, Interestingly i was in the same "boat" as you late last year. The decision btw the two. Now i was comparing the std 50 (not the first) the First 47.7 and the Hanse. When it came time for a test sail the Benneteu bailed due to weather. The hanse was amazing. Strong and stable making amazing progress to windward and providing very little weather helm. The way it is manufactured makes all the difference. The intergal frame and epoxy makes an amazing difference. I didn;t want something that was going to bend and warp down a wave face!!! And besides the other appeal is a stunning design. Maybe i'm biased (ok i surely am!!) but funny how when looking over the new release first 50 at the boat show in London last Jan i noted so many attributes that are clearly lifted form Hanse's innovation. If you want to 100% race then do what you will but if you are truely in the middle and need a short handed setup and still want to be very competitive, then the answer is simple. On the IRC my applicaiton was based on a 140ish asy and a 42 HSA. Will let you know when the result
	GHOST - Hanse 470e - 058 http://www.sailblogs.com/member/ghost/

Brad McMaster Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commadore Joined: 27 September 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 383	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brad McMaster Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 March 2007 at 14:30
	Right i have my IRC rating in which I’m assuming is the first 470 rating anywhere. it is 1.084, so basically inline with the 461 rating that Colin spoke of. The slight difference could be accounted for in numerous ways, so don’t ask!! With out see the two applications side by side we'll be guessing for some time. Nevertheless I’m pretty happy. That I think will see us being very very competitive this year. We have some time aboard on the weekend and as is the theme at the moment, we were very impressed. Terrific boat speed, fabulously tight angles to the wind…can’t complain. Although with every new boat I have list the length of my arm of things to do. I have taken some pics of the request items. I’ll try to post these, but should they not work. Please PM me and I can forward them over. Brad
	GHOST - Hanse 470e - 058 http://www.sailblogs.com/member/ghost/

Singapore Bill Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Lieutenant Joined: 06 March 2007 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 24	Post Options Post Reply Quote Singapore Bill Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 March 2007 at 14:39
	Hey Brad, That rating seems very good for a 47ft yacht with a rig that tall. Is that rated with the 105% (?) genoa or the self-taking jib? And what size/type spinnakers? Also, are you using a prod or conventional pole for the rating? So many questions - sorry mate. Here's something to compare too - my Sydney40 (41ft) rates 1.152 with 100% jibs, 145sq m kites, 21m alu rig and not an ounce of carbon on board. I'd be pretty happy with that rating if I were you! Cheers, Bill

Brad McMaster Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commadore Joined: 27 September 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 383	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brad McMaster Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 March 2007 at 16:35
	Hey mate, That rating is on the self tacking blade. Interesting they did give us a furler restriction so we can carry and use any headsail we like up to (LP < J*1.3). So i take that mean to mean one the way to a 130% genoa. Kite is 139msq and is a crusing chute soe no pole. Everything is production spec. Yeah we are pretty happy with it, now we just need to live up to it!!! Brad
	GHOST - Hanse 470e - 058 http://www.sailblogs.com/member/ghost/

Singapore Bill Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Lieutenant Joined: 06 March 2007 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 24	Post Options Post Reply Quote Singapore Bill Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 April 2007 at 06:40
	Brad, Sorry, I don't follow part of your post. I know that IRC gives rating relief (lower rating) for having a headsail furler. What do you mean by "they did give us a furler restriction"? If you are rated for a 130% genoa then you probably don't have the furler credit (?). EDIT: oh wait, the coin just dropped... you are rated with furler up to 130% genoa is that correct? Cheers, Bill Edited by Singapore Bill - 02 April 2007 at 06:42

Brad McMaster Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commadore Joined: 27 September 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 383	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brad McMaster Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 April 2007 at 09:20
	Hi Bill, Sorry that is a little confusing isn't it? From what I understand (this is the first time I have rated a yacht) is that they didn’t give us a furler (I wrote DID by mistake, sorry). So if they DID give us the furler restriction then we would only be able to use the one furling sail but that I guess would have resulted in a lower handicap due to the inherent inefficiencies of a furled headsail versus a sail wardrobe. What we have is a right to use as many headsails as we like. So that rating of 1.084 allows us to use multiple headsails with out restriction. The reason for this is that LP is less than LP*1.3 on the blade jib we have for self tacking. Hope that helps Brad
	GHOST - Hanse 470e - 058 http://www.sailblogs.com/member/ghost/

Singapore Bill Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Lieutenant Joined: 06 March 2007 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 24	Post Options Post Reply Quote Singapore Bill Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 April 2007 at 10:25
	Brad, Terribly sorry, I still don't know what you mean by "furler restriction". The RORC gives you rating relief (a lower time correction coefficient) for racing with the furler on deck. They also give relief for other things like teak decks, fully kitted out interior, doors on heads etc - basically, anything that makes the yacht "cruisier". That's why bare-arsed racing yachts (like mine) get such nasty (high) ratings under IRC rule. Let me ask you this - are you racing with the furler attached and functioning? If yes, then your rating should reflect this. Trouble is we don't have another (w/o furler) against which to compare. Cheers, Bill



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