SD50 upgrade

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   Hopefully someone far more mechanically-minded than me will provide a definitive answer to that one; all I know is that I had exactly the same issue to the point that I needed molegrips to even open the cap.  I think - not know - that in the absence of a vent operation of the SD created a partial vacuum which caused water to get past the oil seals.  Certainly the shaft became heavily scored.  However, that's conjecture on my part and not authoritative.  Certainly, I've never had issues with gearbox oil pressure since then.
I'm impressed you're able and have the facilities to do the lapping onboard.  From what I understand from my mechanic you might well be able to install the upgrade kit yourself, then.  The seller was quick to answer all queries and was most helpful.  

All the best

Iain

Edited by Ratbasher - 05 June 2024 at 11:29

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Ratbasher Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Vice Admiral Joined: 31 May 2017 Location: Cyprus Status: Offline Points: 818	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ratbasher Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 05 June 2024 at 11:27
	Hopefully someone far more mechanically-minded than me will provide a definitive answer to that one; all I know is that I had exactly the same issue to the point that I needed molegrips to even open the cap. I think - not know - that in the absence of a vent operation of the SD created a partial vacuum which caused water to get past the oil seals. Certainly the shaft became heavily scored. However, that's conjecture on my part and not authoritative. Certainly, I've never had issues with gearbox oil pressure since then. I'm impressed you're able and have the facilities to do the lapping onboard. From what I understand from my mechanic you might well be able to install the upgrade kit yourself, then. The seller was quick to answer all queries and was most helpful. All the best Iain Edited by Ratbasher - 05 June 2024 at 11:29
	H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard' Gosport, UK

jeb Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Joined: 05 May 2014 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 339	Post Options Post Reply Quote jeb Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 12 June 2024 at 10:51
	Richard C! If oil is getting up thru the dipstick it can't be caused by slipping cone! The only possibility is that you have a water leakage in the lower unit (prop shaft seal) or more unlikely in the joint between the upper and lower unit. If you have not using the engine for a while, water will separate from the oil and since oil has lower density this is what you will see. You can extract all oil/water without hauling out, but seal replacement is preferable to do on the hard. Those sail drives are sensitive to overfilling that will cause over preussare. This will result in blown seals (upper on the pinion shaft or lower on the prop shaft). There is actually a service bulletin describing a new longer dip stick. If you still have the original make sure not to fill above the lower mark (with cap/dip stick screwed in). Several SD50 owners have fitted a vent (part of Guedions kit) or even a header tank to avoid over pressure. Those need to be mounted well above the waterline.
	Jesper Hanse 400e

RichardC Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Sub Lieutenant Joined: 11 May 2023 Location: Port Solent Status: Offline Points: 4	Post Options Post Reply Quote RichardC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 June 2024 at 12:18
	Hi Jeb, Thanks for your very helpful reply. We Hauled the boat, replaced the seals at the bottom of the leg, relaunched the boat and I then lapped the cone clutch. Unfortunately, we still have very little drive. I am currently looking into the possibility of the autoprop slipping on its rubber bush. Have you heard of this happening? Many thanks for your wisdom. Richard.
	Richard C

jeb Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Joined: 05 May 2014 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 339	Post Options Post Reply Quote jeb Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 12 June 2024 at 13:46
	I have no experience with that prop. When re-lapping, did you check the vertikal play in the clutch (should be 0,2mm)? Normally this will not result in slipping but the glazing process will go much faster. You should also use GL4 and NOT GL5 oil. A typical sign of slipping clutch is that it will engage when revving up and that it will engage in reverse (different surfaces). It can also be a problem with the shifter tolerances that must be very tight. The tolerance of the shifter was set up at the factory using shims/washers but if you buy Guideons kit it will be done with a set screw/lock nut and a manual process.
	Jesper Hanse 400e

RichardC Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Sub Lieutenant Joined: 11 May 2023 Location: Port Solent Status: Offline Points: 4	Post Options Post Reply Quote RichardC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 June 2024 at 08:12
	Hi Jeb, Thanks again for your help. I did not check, so will pull the clutch out and make sure. I do believe the problem may be the prop, as I spoke to the manufacturer and they said my symptoms could be the rubber breaking down. I just need a fixed prop to try. Many thanks. Richard. "Webster" Hanse 430 in Vigo Spain.
	Richard C

JohnK Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Sub Lieutenant Joined: 03 February 2020 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 1	Post Options Post Reply Quote JohnK Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 September 2024 at 15:07
	Dear All, I have had the cone clutch slipping twice on my Hanse 400e of 2007 with all the issues discribed in the many threads. My remedies are as follows: 1. I have bought a used SD50 from ebay which external corrosion issues (nothing to do with clutch). The clutch from this is always ready for exchange when the slipping begins. The trick of pushing the pinion gear forward without moving the engine forward has worked fine for me. 2. The gearbox is ventilated to atmosphere. Since then there is no more seawater ingress through the seals at the propeller shaft outlet during the cooling down period (by underpressure in the housing). The gear oil remains transparent and doesn't go milky. 3. As soon as it goes milky, seals or shaft are warn, the double seals and the prop shaft(from my spare gearbox) are exchanged and reworked. No new parts (except for the seals) have been neccessary so far (1500 h engine use). John John

zirinisp Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Sub Lieutenant Joined: 18 October 2024 Status: Offline Points: 1	Post Options Post Reply Quote zirinisp Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 October 2024 at 14:50
	Hello All. I dont have a hanse, but i do have an sd50 (2 of them). Even after the upgrade and following the instructions as careful as i could, I have lapped each engine every 80-120 hours 3 times in 2 years. My props are brunton autoprops. The boat is private and i am the only user. I am sailing a. lot and do around 150hr a year on each engine. The cone is within the tolerances and I have no idea what to do next except from keep on lapping everytime it slips. After each lapping, the engine would engage with a very nice satisfactory sound, glang. Then after approx 40-60 hours that sound will start to fade away. Then when i rech 80-120hr (from initial lap), the saildrives will stop engaging. Ussually that happens on reverse engaging first. Bear in mind my props feather on forward. I always engage and slowly increase my rpms. Use only quicksilver high perfomance lube. Next steps are either lap every 80 hours or upgrade to sd60 and see how that goes. I could also get a spare gearbox like someone on this forum recommend and swap it out. But ideally i would like to sort this problem and even get 250-500 hr between lapping will keep me super happy. I saw that parley revival, they did the upgrade kit and then soon after they went for sd60. Anyone having a similar experience?

Ratbasher Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Vice Admiral Joined: 31 May 2017 Location: Cyprus Status: Offline Points: 818	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ratbasher Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 October 2024 at 16:01
	That's very unfortunate; the first time I've heard of any failure. I presume you've contacted the developer of the upgrade kit? Gideon was very responsive and helpful when mine was fitted so I'd be interested to learn of his response. Good luck!
	H400 (2008) 'Wight Leopard' Gosport, UK

Mark_J1 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rear Admiral Joined: 12 March 2013 Location: Dover&Medway UK Status: Offline Points: 690	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mark_J1 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 October 2024 at 08:07
	Zirinisp - possible clue in your post. The Quicksilver oil is GL5 standard. That has ingredients which attack the phosphor bronze in the clutch. Get some GL4 spec oil and do a good drain/flush cycle to remove as much of the GL5 as you can. The older GL4 spec does not have phophor/bronze reactive additives. If you look at the Yanmar SD50 manual you’ll find GL4 is actually spec’d as an alternative. Many people have wondered at Yanmar’s GL5 logic 🤷‍♂️ For comparison, my saildrive has done over 600hrs since the last clutch lapping. Oil changed twice a season preventatively (due to the dodgy shaft o-rings design). Doesn’t (yet) have the Gideon inspired upgrade, but I have added a breather/filter to atmosphere above waterline. Not sure where in the world you are but in the UK I typically just get the oil from Westway’s classic car oil range (a lot of older cars have the similar metallurgy issues). One possible link via Amazon below. Re Parlay Revival saildrive escapades - I dream of having that much space in the engine room! I’d note the SD60 solves one problem but still seems to have shaft o-ring issues! I was surprised to see that there is in fact a minor structural change needed for the SD60. So not a straight swap mechanically (extra parts needed) plus a little work on the mounting setup. That would be an engine out job on my Hanse 400 but you may have more space to work? Mark https://amzn.eu/d/gROAey8 Edited by Mark_J1 - 19 October 2024 at 16:21
	Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31

jeb Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Joined: 05 May 2014 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 339	Post Options Post Reply Quote jeb Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 November 2024 at 08:23
	As I wrote earlier in this thread that I installed the upgrade kit back in 2022. When I wrote my post this spring I had no problems with slipping after 2 years. However, half in to the 2024 season it started to slip again. I was then recommended to switch from Quicksilver High Performance gear oil (in Sweden its sold as GL4, but according to others it's GL5) to a pure GL4 oil. I was even recommended to start using normal engine oil 15w40. I have now changed to a GL3/GL4 SAE90 transmission oil for classic cars and the slipping almost went away, at least I could manage the rest of the season knowing how to get it into gear (a quick rev up, and never let the water drive the prop). So, oil quality is definitely having a role. A fellow Hanse owner actually followed the advice of using 15W40 hand his problems diapered. I'm now on the hard and will take apart the clutch, inspect and re-lap and then only use the gl3/4 classic oil. However, it will probably take a few years to get any reliable conclusion.
	Jesper Hanse 400e



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