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Eduard 
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Joined: 21 February 2007 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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 Posted: 14 April 2008 at 16:31 |
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Wilem, I am sorry to read about your disappointing maiden adventure.
A ship is as seaworthy as its crew. From what you have written I assume that the crew was seaworthy enough.
It is scary that you had to discover several leakages on that trip.
However leakages are not new on Hanse yachts. Apparently your boat was not tested on leakages before the handover, which is a bl......... shame.
There is one other thing that crossed my mind. A sailor can only chosse the weather in the port of departure.
Good luck!
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Ed
sy "Nimby" Hanse 342 #611 (2007); white hull, (one) wheel steering, Selden mast & boom, furlex 200S, deep draught, two cabins, traveller in cockpit, DSC VHF, inboard ap, B&G Zeus + Triton (2x) |
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copain
Captain
Joined: 10 August 2007 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 182 |
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Posted: 14 April 2008 at 16:41 |
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Eduard,
That's exactly wat happened.
Left IJmuiden with a 5 bft. Of course prepared ourselfs for worse like you do en must do. Since we have internet on board we checked the forcast until the last moment of departure. Got another specialised one from the harbourmaster at IJmuiden and decided to go.
One hour on the way the wind goes to 6 bft and we were making less progress. Sure enough 1/2 hour later 7 bft and you could tell it was not going to become any better. There were stonger gusts again.
All this was totally unexpected. So much for all these forcast.
Cheers, Wilem
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s/y Copain (Beneteau 281)
from march 2008 Hanse 350 # 061 Visit my BLOG op http://www.wsv-haringvliet.nl/blog/maatje/ |
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panos
Admiral 
Joined: 02 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1939 |
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Posted: 14 April 2008 at 18:53 |
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I am sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. I never meant or wrote that you or your crew was not experienced to cope with the conditions. I mean exactly as I wrote: the boat and crew was not prepared for the conditions - no antislip tape on the hatches, no stormjib,no trysail and the various items inside not properly stowed away. It is obvious - to me - that you didn't expect the conditions.
You describe the situation as :
The Aegean, where I usually sail and race is like this almost half of July and August- the well known MELTEMI wind. I wouldn't let my boat slam one wave. Slamming reduces the speed or stops the boat, and you make no progress. IMHO in this situation you need a lot of sail area to have power and speed, you bear a little bit away, also for speed ,you drive around the waves as good as possible and you have one crew to constantly adjust the jib and the main (You need two main trimmers since every half hour you must change them). This is the reason I say your crew was not prepared for the conditions.
My previous boats (both Beneteau) have also Sparcraft masts and the halyard jumping happened also to me at least twice. We had to climb the mast to release it. This happens if you let the halyard loose while the sail is flapping wild (while lowering or while reefing). The only safe way to lower the main in a storm is unfortunately one crew to go to the mast and pull the sail down, while another is releasing the halyard keeping it under constant tension.
And all this if you have to continue. It is far easier and safer to run away. But sailing downwind should be a lot easier. I dint understand why to lower the reefed main? Edited by panos - 14 April 2008 at 19:02 |
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Panos
Hanse 630e - selling her - |
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Br00tus
Lieutenant 
Joined: 09 October 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 42 |
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Posted: 14 April 2008 at 19:44 |
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I am sorry that your maiden voyage was not a complete success. However, I do have a number of questions to this thread.
If there are such obvious short comings with the boat - why did you purchase this make / model in the first place? Surely you done a Sea Trial?
Given your experience, why did you not ask for table fiddles and hand holds to be fitted as required?
I realise that such failings should not happen on a class A boat, but at the same time Hanse (UK) are happy to fit these items when requested.
I find it strange that a lot of the complaints you mention are obvious and quite well known. These are the type of complaints raised while at a boatshow - never mind a sea trial.
That aside - Even as a newcomer to sailing, I find it hard to imagine the thought process of the genius at Hanse that thought smooth polished areas of the deck were a good idea!
This crossed my mind at the boatshow while walking around the deck area and while its stupid, I accepted it as a design failing knowing I could add my own grip if required. The good features of the boat out weighed the bad for me - hence I made the purchase.
Personally I think any boat classified as class A should come suitably equipped (by law) including:
Jackstays, Storm Jib and completely water tight companionway closure (probably many other things). You dont go out and decide what seat belts to fit after hand over of a new car!
Lastly, there should be a measurable and repeatable pressurised leak test carried out before any boat is passed through Q&A. You can see daylight through my lazerette locker - and while Hanse said they would rectify it it somehow got forgotten in the hand over process! These leaks should not happen - especially when they are clearly visible!
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“Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans” Website: Http://yachtdoris.blogspot.com |
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Johan Hackman
Admiral of the Fleet 
Joined: 24 August 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 4361 |
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Posted: 14 April 2008 at 22:59 |
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Without commenting on anybody else's experience I would like to add my own thoughts to the discussion.
I had no previous experience with the size of boat when I received my 342. I had sailed a 20 feet Felicity (Hurley Marine) for a number of years and that boat was very, very different from the boat I have now. I made the choice not to pick her up in Greifswald, but get her transported to Stockholm by means of a truck. The following weeks I tried her out and much to my surprise I found myself scared at a few times. When the wind picked up I thought the mast would come down. Now, this was because of two reasons: one was my own insecurity and the other was that the rig was not tuned hard enough. I believe that our boats require much more attention to rig tuning and sail trim than what is advertised. I don't think our boats are delivered ready to take on a journey, let's say, from Greiswald to Stockholm, unless weather conditions are favourable. It's only after getting to know the boat that a journey like that should be made - unless you are already familiar with the size and typ of boat, of course. Johan Edited by Johan Hackman - 14 April 2008 at 23:02 |
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panos
Admiral
Joined: 02 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1939 |
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Posted: 15 April 2008 at 00:32 |
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Hi,
I fully agree Johan. Hanse's carry a lot of sail area
 and are fractional with huge mainsails (compared to other boats) like racers. The rig has to be tuned carefully and very hard. Also it is very important to keep it trimmed (working with the controls). Edited by panos - 15 April 2008 at 00:32 |
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Panos
Hanse 630e - selling her - |
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seileren1
Captain
Joined: 02 May 2007 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 349 |
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Posted: 15 April 2008 at 09:34 |
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The main not coming down is a major problem on many of the newer Hanse models. We were alerted by other 430 owners who strongly suggested us installing a different mainsail traveler system. We did not have the time to get this done in Cheers
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Ian Robinson
Captain
Joined: 24 November 2005 Location: Essex UK Status: Offline Points: 246 |
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Posted: 15 April 2008 at 10:11 |
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Dear Willem,
Thank you for sharing your experience with us, and hopefully it will not, in the end, shake your confidence in your boat. It should not. After 2 seasons with my 370 I am absolutely convinced that no other 11.5 metre boat I could afford to buy would have given me so much fun or be as fundamentally safe. If my budget had been £200,000 I would have bought a Southerly or a Najad or a Halberg Rassey, but it wasn't, so I didn't. I guess this is a compromise we have all made whatever size of Hanse we have. Compared with a Benateau or Dufour or Bavaria then I think the Hanse stands out.
RCD "A" (Ocean) rating does not mean that a boat is perfectly set up for deep sea storms straight from the box. It only means that certain defined characteristics are designed for and or equipment included. My previous boat was a Bavaria 34, which also was category "A" rated, but I would never have contemplated taking it across the Atlantic. I would, however, take my 370 if the chief crew ever gave her permission.
Others have commented on the importance of rig tension and I would echo their advice. I pushed my cap shrouds up to 15% and the intermediates pro-rata. I am thinking that I may go higher this year to perhaps 20%. This pre bend along with backstay tension is important to counter the risk of mast pumping as we cannot have a self tacking headsail and a baby stay.
One other tip I would offer is to slide the reefing lines where they circle the boom aft by 20cm so that they will flatten the sail more when tightened. This means that the stack bag has to be adjusted. Back in 2006 I had to beat against 45 knots for 3 hours on the way back to the UK and I felt that the Hanse setting left the reefed sail too full and with too much power even with the traveller dropped to leeward. I also had the sailmaker add a 3rd reef as well.
Best of luck with sorting the leaks out.
Regards
Ian
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Ostara a 370#88
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taduka
Captain
Joined: 04 December 2005 Location: Malta Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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Posted: 15 April 2008 at 10:43 |
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seileren1
We have a solution which we have installed on several Hanse and is not expensive but very effective. It's a sailtrack system. You can get all the information on our website www.yachtingpartners.com.mt under 'Sailtrack' heading. Let me know if you need a quote. prices are very competitive in Malta! Shawn |
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Abstinenz
myHanse Moderator - Denmark 
Joined: 27 May 2006 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 563 |
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Posted: 15 April 2008 at 17:04 |
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Hi Willem and every new Hanse owner.
Regarding the mast pumping. One thing that I learned is, that never trust the mast set up i.e. scroud tension if not done by my self. When we picked up our 342 the first thing I checked was the scroud tension and found that Wendell & Rados who is doing the job does not tension the scrouds for bad weather conditions. The mast need a lot of tension on the scrouds, aprox. 17-19% of breakage point to avoid most pumping and it's delivered in Greifswald with only 10-12% on the scrouds. /Steen Edited by Abstinenz - 16 April 2008 at 08:22 |
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Hanse 342#436
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panos wrote: