Failed Engine Mounts

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   Hi H8jer......Hold your horses...the photo just above your post is 12 years old, when the mount was brand new. Look at page 3, there is a photo where the mount has a little wear.
When you get a quote for a set of three  new mounts, remember to check Ellebogens price. I believe that two mounts in "200" strenght cost €140 + VAT. When I bought two original Yanmar mounts twelve years ago I paid €680 incl. 19% VAT. 

I searched my PC for the maintanence procedure for the engine mounts...but no luck. (wesailhanse.se?)
Take a look here:  https://ellebogen.com/us/how-to-detect-when-marine-engine-mounts-need-to-be-replaced/
:Kjeld

UPDATE: A
quick ”Advanced search/All forums/Any Date/Engine mounts” gave this result:

https://www.myhanse.com/engine-mounts_topic6573_page1.html?KW=engine+mounts

https://www.myhanse.com/servicing-yanmar-3ym30_topic8760_post70743.html?KW=engine+mounts#70743

https://www.myhanse.com/engine-support_topic8628_post70226.html?KW=engine+mounts#70226

https://www.myhanse.com/engine-mounts_topic9361_post77241.html?KW=engine+mounts#77241

https://www.myhanse.com/yanmar-3jh4-engine-service_topic11435_post94564.html?KW=engine+mounts#94564

https://www.myhanse.com/engine-mount-yanmar-3jh4e_topic14191_post117587.html?KW=engine+mounts#117587
https://sbo.sailboatowners.com/downloads/sailboat__55556031.pdf
The blue
water securing of engine mounts
is mentioned here:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/files-2540/1581764097_YanmarEngineMounts.pdf

Offshore safety tie 

The mount on the left
is the type used under 2GM to 4LH series engines,
if you need to pass a Cat 4 inspection for off-shore, put a wire or small chain
through the centre 'nose' and over the top of the top metal piece and
'Talurite', crimp or u-bolt the ends together. I have never seen this mount
fail because the bonding failed from reasonable use. The failures were always
incorrect installation, age, or they became covered in diesel

In the photos of my securing wire (see page 3+4), you´ll see that I have included the bracket in the loop of the wire. This drawing shows a method which does not help against a broken stud.

Edited by Captain Cook - 22 March 2024 at 23:15

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Captain Cook Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 23 May 2006 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 1245	Post Options Post Reply Quote Captain Cook Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 March 2024 at 19:12
	Hi H8jer......Hold your horses...the photo just above your post is 12 years old, when the mount was brand new. Look at page 3, there is a photo where the mount has a little wear. When you get a quote for a set of three new mounts, remember to check Ellebogens price. I believe that two mounts in "200" strenght cost €140 + VAT. When I bought two original Yanmar mounts twelve years ago I paid €680 incl. 19% VAT. I searched my PC for the maintanence procedure for the engine mounts...but no luck. (wesailhanse.se?) Take a look here: https://ellebogen.com/us/how-to-detect-when-marine-engine-mounts-need-to-be-replaced/ :Kjeld UPDATE: A quick ”Advanced search/All forums/Any Date/Engine mounts” gave this result: https://www.myhanse.com/engine-mounts_topic6573_page1.html?KW=engine+mounts https://www.myhanse.com/servicing-yanmar-3ym30_topic8760_post70743.html?KW=engine+mounts#70743 https://www.myhanse.com/engine-support_topic8628_post70226.html?KW=engine+mounts#70226 https://www.myhanse.com/engine-mounts_topic9361_post77241.html?KW=engine+mounts#77241 https://www.myhanse.com/yanmar-3jh4-engine-service_topic11435_post94564.html?KW=engine+mounts#94564 https://www.myhanse.com/engine-mount-yanmar-3jh4e_topic14191_post117587.html?KW=engine+mounts#117587 https://sbo.sailboatowners.com/downloads/sailboat__55556031.pdf The blue water securing of engine mounts is mentioned here: https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/files-2540/1581764097_YanmarEngineMounts.pdf Offshore safety tie The mount on the left is the type used under 2GM to 4LH series engines, if you need to pass a Cat 4 inspection for off-shore, put a wire or small chain through the centre 'nose' and over the top of the top metal piece and 'Talurite', crimp or u-bolt the ends together. I have never seen this mount fail because the bonding failed from reasonable use. The failures were always incorrect installation, age, or they became covered in diesel *In the photos of my securing wire (see page 3+4), you´ll see that I have included the bracket in the loop of the wire. This drawing shows a method which does not help against a broken stud.* Edited by Captain Cook - 22 March 2024 at 23:15
	Freya H400 #27 (2006),2-cabin, 40HP 3JH4E, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)

DJgun Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Joined: 04 April 2020 Location: SydneyAustralia Status: Offline Points: 287	Post Options Post Reply Quote DJgun Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 24 March 2024 at 13:02
	Dear 400 owners. A lot of mention is made about setting the amount of thread sticking out the top etc, which I believe is ignoring the fundamentals of engine installation. TheYanmar with saildrive is supposed to be installed in a horizontal position both longitudinally and laterally, and that is why there us a range of adjustment (10mm) in the mount. You can check whether it is horizontal with a spirit level on the heat exchange on the 3JH4E. When fitting one new mount I found the height of mounts was 105mm one side and 103mm on the other, both being within the specified range 100mm to 110mm. Having the engine properly levelled is a key requirement, before you start looking at thread stick-outs etc. If the motor is properly levelled then it should ensure the prop shaft stays on centreline, and parallel with the water surface. If the motor isn't level transversely it will offset the prop. The points raised by others about stresses on the threaded stud of the mounts is valid, and the solutions to reducing likelihood of failure are ok. But, first step is to make sure the engine itself is installed level. Edited by DJgun - 24 March 2024 at 13:03
	DJ.....Sailor Ordinaire HIN DE-HANJ0331J708

Captain Cook Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admiral Joined: 23 May 2006 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 1245	Post Options Post Reply Quote Captain Cook Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 March 2024 at 22:02
	DJgun wrote: “A lot of mention is made about setting the amount of thread sticking out the top etc, which I believe is ignoring the fundamentals of engine installation. TheYanmar with saildrive is supposed to be installed in a horizontal position both longitudinally and laterally, and that is why there us a range of adjustment (10mm) in the mount.” You are absolutely right, but it is also true, that you should not have more than 7 mm of visible thread on the stud. Ellebogen is in fact suggesting that you lift the engine mount with spacers to avoid too much thread visible. Even Yanmar tells you to place the engine as low as possible on the stud (thereby making less thread visible). If you have a fixed propeller shaft, do not pay attention to my suggestions in this thread, but if you have a saildrive, you can choose between broken engine mounts or a method to avoid such a fate. I may have forgotten all about sine and cosine, but if I calculate the offset in degrees when I lower my engine 10 mm in the front mounts, it should be like 0,723*tan^-1(0,01)=0,4142, which tells me that the engine will get a displacement of less than half a degree. This should easily be absorbed by the rubber diaphragm. At least I now have sailed 12 years with this setup with no problems. To sum up the suggestions in this thread: If you like to use the spirit level, I have no objections. Fine with me if you choose to place the engine to a tenth of a millimeter in the “right” position. But (having read all the posts in this thread) I will suggest that you buy 4-5 nuts, a few washers and a tube of Loctite. Then I hope that you will put nuts and washers on top of each other and eventually have a setup that looks like the photos from Landlocked or me. Sail safely out there :Kjeld Edited by Captain Cook - 25 March 2024 at 07:51
	Freya H400 #27 (2006),2-cabin, 40HP 3JH4E, 3-blade Flexofold, Aries LiftUp Windvane, Exturn 300, Jefa DD1,Simrad NX40,Icom M603(VHF)+M802(SSB)

DJgun Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Captain Joined: 04 April 2020 Location: SydneyAustralia Status: Offline Points: 287	Post Options Post Reply Quote DJgun Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 25 March 2024 at 10:20
	Hi Kjeld, The focus of my post is to point out that focussing on the number of threads visible on the mount is not the only way to make decisions. Yes your mathematics is a little rusty. The longitudinal angle is Tan-1 [10/743) =0.77 degrees. But one would not normally talk about levels in degrees. The level is determined in mm/m or similar. 10mm out of level is not "fractions of a mm" as you suggest. It is quite course alignment actually. As this Sub forum is Hanse 400 I assumed all of them are fitted with saildrives. The propellor shaft I referred to is the shaft the propellor is attached to, which is the output shaft if a saildrive. Measuring with spirit level is done when the boat is on the mooring or in marina with quiet water, the same as you would be normally doing when adding nuts or spacers. I can't imagine you would be making any engine mount adjustments while sailing. As far as transverse engine levelling, if for some unknown reason the mounts are set at upper limit one side and the motor therefore a long way from transverse level, and minimum on the other, then potentially the propellor shaft could be offset 36mm from centreline which is significant. It is very easy to set the motor level using even a small basic spirit level. Easy for a relatively untrained person. While I don't actually care what other owners choose to do with their engine mounts, I felt it worthwhile to point out a primary requirement. My 400e has been converted to SD60, and so some other adjustments to motor height are already made. With my considerable professional experience with drive assemblies I felt it prudent to verify the installation myself. Yes, at one stage I was National Technical Manager for ZF, who actually make the saildrives. Wrong motor levelling also means incorrect oil level as determined with dipstick monitoring. Other owners can do their own "engineering" of engine mounts to avoid failures. Go your hardest, do whatever you want, it is no skin off my nose. DJ Edited by DJgun - 25 March 2024 at 10:47
	DJ.....Sailor Ordinaire HIN DE-HANJ0331J708

Sportswagoneer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Lieutenant Commander Joined: 17 June 2018 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 77	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sportswagoneer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 March 2024 at 11:12
	Well I for one, would like to thank both of the knowledgeable gentlemen here for contributing to the thread! I searched quite a bit for "saildrive motor mount alignment" etc. and found ZERO referencs to "optimal leveling" with a saildrive. And while accurate leveling with a saildrive maybe less critical than with a shaft, it's obviously not entirely insignificant! It's equally obvious that a number of Hanse boats - engine leveled or not - have been delivered from the yard mounted so high up on the bare studs that it has led to very real problems with studs shearing off. I realize that I may have to compromize between these two issues when the time comes to replace my own mounts - but now I can at least make an informed compromize! So thanks again to the both of you!
	2010 Hanse 400 #700 “Neste Sommer”



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